051 Goofball Stud transcript (Bill Paxton)

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[00:00:00] Amit: This is famous and Gravy, a quest for the secret sauce to life, one dead celebrity at a time. Now for the opening quiz to reveal today's dead celebrity.

[00:00:11] Michael: This person died 2017, age 61. When he was eight, he and his brother Bob were taken by their father to see President John F. Kennedy on the morning of November 22nd, 1963 in Fort Worth hours before his assassination in Dallas.

[00:00:30] Friend: Gosh, I'm a Fort Worth guy. I should know this. It's gonna be a poli. Petition. I'm gonna say Bob Dole.

[00:00:37] Michael: Not Bob Dole. He was described as good natured in assessing his status in Hollywood. In a 1998 interview, he said, quote, I haven't had a role that's propelled me into major stardom. Sure, I've had roles that put me on the playing field. A lot of base hits, no home runs.

[00:00:57] Friend: Ooh, Ray Liotta.

[00:00:58] Michael: Not Ray Liotta. In 2012, he was nominated for an Emmy award for playing Randolph McCoy in the three part mini-series Hatfield in McCoy's, which aired on the History Channel.

[00:01:11] Friend: I don't know. No, I've never heard of this.

[00:01:14] Michael: From 2006 to 2011, he played the lead role of Bill Hendrickson on the H B O Show, big Love for which he received three Golden Globe nominations.

Uh,

[00:01:26] Friend: Bill Pullman.

[00:01:27] Michael: So close, not Bill Pullman. Early in his career, he had small parts in the Terminator and Aliens both directed by James Cameron.

[00:01:38] Friend: I got it. I got it. Bill Paxton. Oh, bill Paxton. Oh, Bill Paxton. It's Bill Paxton.

[00:01:43] Michael: Today's dead celebrity is Bill Paxton.

[00:01:47] Archival: Good. Ready, man. Check it out. I am the ultimate badass. Yes. State of the badass. Sorry, running. You do not want to fuck with me. Check it out. Ready to get it on, joe. We're all express Elevator to hell. Go in down, take one. Mark. Woo.

[00:02:18] Michael: Welcome to Famous and Gravy. I'm Michael Osborne.

[00:02:21] Amit: And I'm Amit Kapoor.

[00:02:23] Michael: We are midlife, give or take, and we believe that the best years might lie ahead. So on this show, we study a celebrity who died in the last 10 years. We go through a series of categories in search of ingredients to life that we might desire and ultimately ask a big question, would I want that life? Today, Bill Paxton died 2017, age 61. Category one grading the first line of their obituary. Bill Paxton, the affable actor who was a co-star in a string of 1990s blockbuster movies, including Twister Titanic and Apollo 13, and who later played the lead in the critically acclaimed television drama. Big Love has died.

He was 61.

[00:03:14] Amit: Okay. I'm pretty comprehensive of the career, I think. You think so? I disagree with that actually. What? What do you think it's missing career-wise?

[00:03:22] Michael: Career-wise, it's very, very, very hard to capture the breadth of Bill Paxton's career. And I think we'll get to that more in later categories. I mean, they do list some very, very big movies here.

Twister was a box office sensation. He was the lead Titanic, you know, at that point, the highest grossing of all time at Apollo 13, both a blockbuster and critically acclaimed. So I do sort of like that selection of those three movies. I also think that, The nod to big love is really important. I think that that was a lead show during a important moment in TV history.

I mean, it's hard, right? Because he died young, so you don't wanna say like long and storied career at the same time. His career goes back. It's pretty long. And Ed? Yes. Yeah, it's long and storied for somebody who's died young. So first of all, he's 61 and died suddenly. So this is not one of those O bits that was.

Written ahead of time. Like this was a, yeah, there's no way this was a job on deadline. Right. So I'm, I'm wanting to offer a little bit of leeway here, but it doesn't get at the longevity. It misses a, a kind of like cult-like status He has too,

[00:04:33] Amit: I think. I mean, I can sense that you're troubled by something.

It's in your eyes. It's very like, bad dreams. There's something that's, that's underneath like

[00:04:43] Michael: it is bad dreams. I'm gonna go to bed tonight. They didn't do you Justice Bill. I mean, I almost affable actor. I guess. I, I really wanna hone that co-star, I think. Yeah. Well, yes. Thank you, CoStar. I'm glad you pointed that out.

It almost seems like it was important for them to get the word CoStar in there. Totally. Like he's, for the most part, not a leading man.

[00:05:02] Amit: Not even for the most part, I think it's unquestionable twister as an exception, but nobody at all considers

[00:05:07] Michael: him a leading actor. Totally. I mean, I think he is, he's a cameo kind of guy.

He's a co-star kind of guy. He is a part of a crew kind of guy. Like he is part of a mix. There's something that just doesn't capture the breadth and longevity for me. Like how many places he showed up, how ever present he was, how ubiquitous would not have been a bad word to use for me.

[00:05:30] Amit: I don't know, man.

I don't agree. Not the job of the first line. You know, the first line is we've discussed is what do you know this person for? Yeah. But here's

[00:05:38] Michael: the thing though, I, I actually think that a lot of people who know him know him for weird science and aliens as much as Apollo 13 and Titanic. Correct. Because it

[00:05:50] Amit: looks like, I'm looking at the, at your filmography,

[00:05:52] Michael: like you did a lot of little bits here and there.

I know. You gotta ask me about one film. Which one? The one that I, to this day, if I do a thousand movies, it'll be at the top of my obituary. What is it? Weird science. The nod to those like cult classics and those scene stealing moments. That's what's kind of missing for me. There's a unique quality that I think is very hard to put your finger on, that goes beyond the word affable.

That's not quite captured here. And I mean, I do think that it is not simple to answer the question. What's the one thing you know Bill Paxton from, because you know him from 18 things if you know him at all. Yeah. So

[00:06:32] Amit: I'll side with you on this, and I think part of the problem is the nineties blockbusters, even though they talked about big love, but the weird science and the aliens are much of what he is loved for those smaller, very quotable rolls.

How about a nice

[00:06:50] Michael: greasy pork sandwich served in a dirty ashtray? You looked at that and who is that guy? And so I, yes, I think you put it well, the bracketing of nineties and then Big Love, which is the two thousands, sort of narrows his longevity. That's my main gripe with it. Before we move on, affable, I mean, is that do him justice?

What's your take on the word affable here?

[00:07:12] Amit: I think so. It resonates with me. A lot of him in his speeches and interviews reminds me of Matthew McConaughey, who I would absolutely describe as affable, and that's why I think that that's, that's a great

[00:07:23] Michael: Bill Paxton word. So you know what I, I agree it is, but I had to get there a little bit with that word.

My first memory of Bill Paxton is absolutely as Chet in weird science. Without doubt, I cannot tell you how much he reminded me of so many. Dick had older brothers that I knew growing up, and you kind of even see it a little bit in aliens as well. I mean, he is got the kind of, you know, Jeremy to doit, jockish asshole bullshit, uh, you know, machismo that like is the opposite of affable.

So

[00:07:56] Amit: affable is describing him. That's describing the man Bill Paxton that we see offscreen. The vast majority of the characters are as far from

[00:08:05] Michael: affable as possible. That's interesting. Usually when they say the, the blank actor, when they have an adjective, like when they say the affable actor, I interpreted that to be like he took on affable roles.

You're taking it. He's an affable man. Yes. Yeah, I like the word. I think it's appropriate and I think it probably needs to rise to the top of the list as something you would use to describe him because it is the one real important adjective in this whole first line. I got the sense that this man was truly.

Beloved in the Hollywood community. You saw people saying things. I was thinking about this thing that I actually witnessed Bill Paxton do. Mm-hmm. Which was, we go to see Val Kilmer in this play and we, we get in and we're taking our seats

[00:08:53] Amit: and all of a sudden someone taps me on the shoulder and it's

[00:08:55] Michael: Bill Paxton.

[00:08:56] Amit: Mm-hmm. Was like, Hey man, how's it going? I'm like, Hey,

[00:08:58] Michael: it's really good. And then I say, I just gotta tell you, uh, how much I love Tombstone. What an amazing movie Tombstone is. And I say, I have to tell you, that's my, uh, mind producer over there, Jason Chami, who's been with me since he was like a kid since he was like 18.

And Tombstone is one of his favorite movies. And Bill Paxton went, which, which guy is he? Which guy is he? And I said, right there, Jason, he, his name's Jason. Yeah. And he goes over, he walks over to Jason, he goes, Hey

[00:09:20] Amit: Jason. And these reps whispering in Jason's ear, Jason

[00:09:24] Michael: has a beard and it almost falls off and his eyes get big as quarters.

And he's like,

[00:09:30] Amit: and he's doing this for a while. And then he walked away and I'm like, what the hell did he say to Ja? I go over to Jason and Jason's not a famous guy or

[00:09:38] Michael: anything. Mm-hmm. And he spent quite

[00:09:40] Amit: a while with him. And he said he just leaned over and he recited to me quietly all of his lines from Tombstone.

[00:09:46] Michael: Who does that? Who does that? Yeah. Nobody does

[00:09:50] Amit: that.

[00:09:51] Michael: And I, and I think it was more than just the tragedy. I think there was big love

[00:09:56] Amit: Yeah. Around it. And I think that's part of the discussion that we need to get into. And I think a lot of that is the co-star and the second man status. Yeah. You're a lot more likely to be loved and have that.

Affection shown around you, I think when you're not on the

[00:10:11] Michael: highest pedestal. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's something to that. Okay. Well, all right. I think I have my score. Okay. You go first. I'm gonna give it an eight. I think it's basically pretty good. I do feel like there's a little bit of short shrift to his cult status and some of the things that you would know him for.

For the people who are gonna take a real interest in this. Obituary. I feel like there's not quite enough. Overall pretty damn good. This was hard one on deadline. I'll give you a little more grace, but it's missing some

[00:10:38] Amit: things for me. Okay. I'm also going an eight, but mine's like a positive eight, and so I'm like, I thought you were gonna go much lower.

Like I, I think it's an eight because it's quite good and quite comprehensive. I do agree. You did talk me into the early cult roles in weird science and aliens, which is I think what a lot of people, even though is reading this obituary, know him for first and then the confusion of just like the only reference to the man himself was affable.

And I don't know that that belongs in the summary of his career in the first line. You're either gonna get a lot on the, the personal life or you hit on none of it. I, I don't like this kind of weird single word. Nod. Yeah.

[00:11:16] Michael: All right. Shall we move on? Yes. All right. Category two, five things I love about you here.

Amit and I come up with five reasons why we'd love this person, why we wanna be talking about them in the first place. I've got one I'd like to lead with that I think is a really good segue. This may even be a possible title. I don't know. I wrote I M D B M P. Ooh, here's the thought experiment I wanna put to you.

So it's a desert island thought experiment. You're about to get banished to a desert island, and you can choose one actor, only one, or actress, where you get access to their entire catalog, and that's all you get. Their whole catalog, everything they've ever done that was on the big or small screen is yours on this desert island.

Who do you choose? I don't think you would choose a strong leading man or woman. I don't think you want Jack Nicholson or Meryl Streep or Denzel or Pacino, anything like that, because I think you would, those movies are about those people and you'd kind of sour on them. So you're looking for range. You're probably looking for a character actor, and you're looking for somebody who's prolific.

So they've been in a bunch of things. In particular, a bunch of re watchable things. Now, I'm not gonna read the whole I M D B here, but let me just put tell you how I tried to categorize this, okay? So in the sci-fi action domain, there's some obvious things. You get Terminator Aliens, predator Two, and I'll even throw in True Lies in there.

Bill Paxton is the only person who went up against the Terminator, the Predator and the Alien. Yes. Uh, which is a pretty nice trifecta. In comedy, you get Club Dread, which is Broken Lizard. They're super trooper guys. That is such an underrated, hilarious movie. You also get Weird Science and Stripes, the Bill Murray movie in drama, you get a simple plan, which was awesome.

Titanic, Apollo 13 and Twister, if you wanna throw it, you also get Westerns, tombstone Hatfield and McCoy's. You get Horrors. He was in Tales From the Crypt and Near Dark. You get TV shows, big Love Agents of Shield, who was also in Miami Vice, the Hitchhiker and Frazier, and you get all kinds of weird cult movies from the seventies and the Roger Corman stuff and like.

On top of everything you get music videos, martini Ranch, which we get to talk about later. That was his thing. Pat Benatar, limp Bizkit. That Phish head song also will come up later and new order. Yeah. What a fucking unbelievable imdb. This is just a sampling.

[00:13:44] Amit: I think you did miss one important category, which is sports.

He was in million dollar arm and he directed the greatest game ever Played. I'm adding to your breath.

[00:13:52] Michael: Yes. Like I, I defy you to come up with a more interesting I M D B for an actor. I think you can enjoy all of this without ever exactly. Souring on Bill Paxton. I think he's got arguably the greatest I M B B of all time.

There go imdb m mvp. Okay.

[00:14:10] Amit: And the love factor in all this is just, you like the breadth,

[00:14:14] Michael: I guess it's like the willingness, but also the opportunity. I mean, he's just saying yes to so many things, but he's also like, with all of them, I mean, nothing's half-assed with Bill Paxton, right? Like it's all in, on all of these things so much that he becomes, you know, very much in demand for a wide range of projects.

I love it for like great body of work. It's that simple. Look, if we're talking to famous en Gravy desirability, you know, I wanna be on my deathbed at looking at whatever work I put out and say, you know, look at this list. Isn't what a great list.

[00:14:48] Amit: Yeah. And it's a great non-linear list. Like it's very open.

And with that you get this beautiful catalog that you wanna be stranded on a desert island with.

[00:14:57] Michael: I mean, wouldn't you also like, wanna just have that conversation with somebody with this breadth of work at a cocktail party where, you know, you don't have to talk about everything you've ever done, but, but it gives you a menu of things to talk about.

And that's the kind of person I wanna be. I want to be wide ranging in my interests and in my activities, which is why

[00:15:15] Amit: we have a category for that, Michael. Yeah, indeed. Indeed. Okay. I like it. I, and I saw the passion in you. As you, as you said that,

[00:15:22] Michael: uh, I couldn't wait to give

[00:15:24] Amit: you that one. All right. What do you got for number two?

Uh, number two, not jaded. And so that goes, I think a lot of that is afforded because he was this co-star who was everywhere, but giving interviews throughout. He's, uh, every guy and he always was. There's no mask to him. Yeah. Yeah. And he still, he was described as somebody that like, every time he was on a roll, it's like his first roll ever.

He just loves it. He just like cannot believe that he's an, an actor, a professional actor with Tom Hanks and James Cameron. Like it's all always new to him. And I've don't think we've come across anybody here now in 51 episodes that didn't experience some degree of jadedness or some fall from the high.

You

[00:16:08] Michael: look fantastic. How do you do it? I need your secrets. Smoke mirrors. Smoke mirrors.

[00:16:13] Amit: It's

[00:16:14] Michael: all smoke and mirrors. That's what's wonderful about our business, isn't it? Rolling. It's a grand illusion. It's no, you look fantastic. Every time you're in a film, you look different. I, I've always, I got got into this business because I love the idea of, uh, you know, putting a Pirate's patch on or playing different roles and, and for me, they're just kind of a lot of alter egos, these different characters that I've been able to play.

You know, I love to change how I look, so I, I'm getting ready to do another picture if I'm playing an astronaut. I don't work for another two months in, in this movie, but I wanted to cut my hair and I wanted to get myself kind of looking like, I think one of these astronauts would've looked,

[00:16:53] Amit: I think there was also this, which is very interesting, that I noticed about him that was very different from other people, actors and musicians especially, is he was not afraid to go back and quote the earlier works.

If he's in an interview and they're like, oh, do the weird science line or the, the aliens line, and even if this is the year, like 2012, get him over, man. Yeah, yeah. He's still willing to do that. That is not common. And like, I mean like Will Smith is not going around like Resing parents just don't understand.

Yeah. And the whole ride seems to be a joy. I, he, he loves reliving it. Yeah. And the last clue I saw is this was an interview I think when he was on Mark Maron is telling a story, um, very subtly about like Tom Hanks and they were about to do a documentary together and he was like, yeah, I just gave Tom Hanks, uh, an award at the People's Choice Award last night.

But he giggles when he says that, like, can you believe it's me that I'm the guy that gets to give the award? I, there was no jade evident in him, which I think is extremely hard to achieve in a level of success in show business at that degree of wealth and visibility.

[00:17:55] Michael: I couldn't agree more. He is so happy to be there and it is decidedly

[00:17:59] Amit: desirable.

Yeah, and I like your wording of happy to be there, cuz when I say not jaded, it's, it's a little bit of just undoing a negative. But what you're saying explicitly is he's happy to be there. Yeah. Fuck. Can I, so there we go. Number two, happy to be

[00:18:11] Michael: there. This segues pretty well to my number three and I think that it's an outgrowth of your number two.

I wrote welcoming. I think he's got like a welcome come on end vibe. I don't think he is just affable, like he sees what he is doing as fundamentally collaborative and that he is willing to take center stage and attempt to be the lead man or seen steal, but that he also is like teeing everybody up around him for success and giving spotlight and love to the cast and crew.

I mean, and that same W T F episode, he talks about, you know, set designers right? And he is like, I feel like all I am in as an actor sometimes is the last part in a set design. There's something about him that I do think is, you know, we're in this room, we belong. That I think is a really important energy to bring to creative collaborations.

So I love that about him.

[00:19:04] Amit: Yeah, there's kind of a non-striving aspect to that, almost as in quality. Happy to lift each other up. I don't have to be on the top of the roster. I mean, there's

[00:19:14] Michael: ego, but if ego's in check with him, there's an honest recognition of, I'm gonna be on the screen with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

He's the more important figure on this stage right now. But there are other moments where I'll get my shot and that's fine, and let's all buy into that vision, you

[00:19:31] Amit: know? Yeah. Do you remember who we talked about? Cause that came up once before where we said he's a very proud number two. He or she? I don't remember who we talked about.

Yeah,

[00:19:39] Michael: I, I mean, when Bob Einstein.

[00:19:41] Amit: It might have been Alan Rickman.

[00:19:43] Michael: Actually, that feels true. I know it was not Margaret Thatcher. Um,

[00:19:47] Amit: no, we know. Definitely not Margaret Thatcher. Definitely not Muhammad Ali anyway. All right. You wanna take number four? Yes. Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and call this one weird science.

Uh, Because it's not weird science, but it is weird science. Mm-hmm. So, two things I wanna point to. One is fish heads, the other is Twister. Uh, so Phish heads, I think we may have to introduce the audience to this a little bit. This was a really obscure kind of parody song in the late seventies, early eighties that Bill Paxton early on in his.

Film career really. Before he was even acting in like barely cameo parts, he made little short films. And one of the things he made was the music video for this song, Phish Headss, which was from a band called Barnes and Barnes. And it was completely bizarre. It even debuted on Saturday Night Live in 19, in 1980.

Yeah. In their kind of lost, lowest rated season ever where they're just throwing stuff out. Right. But then it was picked up by Dr. Demento, this Yes radio jock who also had a TV show. I believe it showed up a lot in the early to mid eighties on these like Dr. Demento shows and even on M T V. And I remember my brother and I loved it.

Yes. Like really like VCR taped this video and watched it over and over again. Cause it was just so weird and so weird that it was funny. And I think with that introduction to me personally and possibly to my brother who was two years older, was like, Weird is kind of cool.

[00:21:14] Michael: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I mean it's, it's hard to describe just how weird this thing is.

They can't,

[00:21:34] Amit: what is this it, I mean, it's,

[00:21:36] Michael: it's hard to money pythonesque in a way. I don't know, but it does appeal the children in, in a funny way. Yeah. And we should say Paxton both started

[00:21:44] Amit: it and directed it. This is correct, and we'll put the video in the show notes, but what it did to me is saying, you know, weird is, okay, weird is actually kind of cool and weird is can be funny, you know?

Yeah. It's sort of introduced weirdness, I think, to a whole generation as being kind of cool. And I like that. Yeah. About what Bill Paxton did in the directing of that movie, so early in his career, but then he comes back and does it again one more time, and this is something I just learned about when Twister came out, it was a big success and storm chasing.

If you picture people that are storm chasing hobbyists, they are often known as like kind of weirdos, basement dweller type of things to just terribly stereotype it. However, I learned that that movie brought storm chasing into the mainstream because Bill Paxton was not like this fringe digger, weird science guy, right?

Yeah. He was just a guy that had a passion and followed that. And the Twister effect is that, and so this is actually a recorded statistic. This is according to a man named John Knox, who's a coordinator for the Atmospheric Sciences program at the University of Georgia. And he said from 1990 to the late two thousands, the number of bachelor degree recipients in the atmospheric sciences in the US doubled.

Wow. Weird

[00:23:02] Michael: science. Did you see that thing about, uh, what the storm chasers did when Bill Paxton died?

[00:23:08] Amit: Yes. They formed his initials with on, on the map

[00:23:11] Michael: with that span, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas tornado alley, right? Yeah. And so there was a b e P on the G P S display honoring his death. I thought that was incredible.

Yeah. Like what if that, that's awesome. Yeah.

[00:23:24] Amit: So there I am. He made weird science. Cool. Yeah,

[00:23:27] Michael: well done. I love that. Number four. I feel pretty strongly that I want you to take number five. Amit, you take number five.

[00:23:33] Amit: Okay. Mine's pretty simple. Natural over Cusser. Yes. God damnit. Yes. Hi. He was a great cusser.

Who did you, you gave somebody else this, I think Trax dropped F

[00:23:43] Michael: bombs all over the fucking place.

[00:23:45] Amit: Alex Re was our second grade, uh, over Cusser. And Bill Paxton did it in his roles and he did a lot in his interviews, but it came across so naturally it was so a part of him. But I think this is so part of the Anatural affability that we love about Bill Paxton, and it's this whole status thing with being the co-star and being the one that lifts everyone up.

He's just so accessible and I think it comes through in language. And I'm sorry that it's coming through in four letter words, but that's how it's coming through. Well, I like it. I like it as a gateway to accessibility. And I think we've talked about the strength of casual cussing. Um, I need to tell you a story.

I have these friends, uh, Ashley and Clinton, both friends married to each other and they have like, Teenage daughters and they say they want them to listen to our show. Uh, but she was like, but do you guys have to cuss so much? Like that's the reason we can't have our daughters listen to it. So it's very much a reflection of you and I and I and I, yes, I think, I think we do.

Uh, which also reminds me of the line from The Big Lebowski when like Sam Elliot turns to, uh, the dude, the dude, and he is like,

[00:24:44] Michael: you have to use so many cuss words.

What the fuck you talking

[00:24:51] Amit: about? It all reminds me of that. But yes, natural over cuss.

[00:24:55] Michael: Fucking, Hey, that's just fucking great, man. Now what the fuck are we supposed to do? Where's the real pretty shit now, man, you finished? All right, so let's recap number one. I had I M D B M V P number two.

[00:25:11] Amit: I said not jaded.

You gave it a better phrase, which was happy to be here.

[00:25:14] Michael: Happy to be here. Number three, I said welcoming. He's got a welcome. Come on in vibe number

[00:25:20] Amit: four. I said weird science, making the fringe cool. And number five, natural over cusser.

[00:25:25] Michael: Okay. Category three, Malkovich Malkovich. This category is named after the movie being John Malkovich, in which people can take a little portal into John Che's mind and they can have a front row seat to his experiences.

Okay, this is in 2003. He appears in a Limp Biscuit video. The song is called Eat You Alive.

[00:25:49] Amit: You're gonna love

[00:25:50] Michael: this. Hey, you

want it is not a good song. It is not a good video. I think by any standards, I think this is a real low point in his career. Twister. Was a box office success, but it did not solidify him as a leading man. Far from it. The next movie he did after that was Evening Star, which is a, a sequel to terms of Endearment.

Shout out to Larry McMurtry. Then he did a movie with Mark Wahlberg called The Traveler that I never even heard of. The Limp Bizkit song flopped. The video flopped and then, then the next thing he does after that is Club Dread, where he plays coconut. Pete, have you seen Club Dread

[00:26:37] Amit: on it? No, but I'm inspired to watch it.

After listening to all these interviews,

[00:26:40] Michael: coconut Pete has a song called Pinya Colberg. Oh God, it's so good. Pony Tail. We'll get you tail. Just keep it outta my, my

[00:26:50] Amit: tie. You cocktails would never failed that day. You and Your Jaquita Sky.

[00:26:55] Michael: Hi. Hey Margaritaville. I love that book Darling. I think you're referring to my song, peanut Colada Burke.

This song, song I wrote. Seven and a half fucking years before Margaritaville was even on the map. I don't need to Shit. No on, man. Fuck that guy. The reason I hone in on it is not any comment on lip bizkit or being in music videos. I think that there's a sort of like, it's never clear did I make it and have I made it?

Is it done? Am I gonna be secure as an actor for the rest of my life? I think every actor has this like fear that one day it's all just going to go away. Paxton had, you know, in that quote that's in the quiz, he talks about a lot of opportunities, a lot of bass hits, no home runs. You would've thought Twister might have been a home run or a simple plan, might have been a home run, and they were critically acclaimed and he was praised.

But yet, you know, he doesn't become Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt or Jack Nicholson, or any other like firmly rooted leading man. And so when he is doing this video in 2003, I'm wondering about the insecurity. I'm wondering about the self-doubt. I'm wondering like, what the fuck am I doing in this video? I'm not even sure I like this song.

And am I gonna be able to continue to find work or not? I chose this moment amongst the whole catalog because it seemed to stand out as a low point. I wonder about that with him. I wanna know from a Malkovich point of view how present that question is and was in his mind.

[00:28:35] Amit: Yeah, but what's the lesson here, Michael?

So we know like we, we have the benefit of a complete life that his career relaunched. Yeah. So you wanna look and you wanna feel the insecurity, but is it that, is the lesson, just power through it, believe in

[00:28:49] Michael: yourself. I don't know that there is a lesson. I think it's a curiosity question. I don't think I have a conclusion yet.

In fact, I think I wanted to raise this as a malkovich, cuz it's the thing I want you and I to like explore a little bit in this episode. You know that, that those questions, I wanna know how present that fear was and how he dealt with that. This is a snapshot of that, but it's a bigger question I have about his career overall.

Yeah. I, I don't know. I, I just wonder how he dealt with that question. Yeah, totally.

[00:29:16] Amit: I, I, that's that. I see the point. It's just an interesting thing to, to think about when, you know how it ended. It's all about self-confidence and something

[00:29:24] Michael: isn't inevitable, I think is the question I'm after. I, I, I wanna know if he ever

[00:29:29] Amit: Yes.

Yes. I think that's, I think that's the true highlight of your point. I think it is inevitable. Yes. Everybody's gonna go through it.

Fear

[00:29:35] Michael: is inevitable. What a weird place for that to be manifesting in a Limp Bizkit video. All right.

[00:29:40] Amit: You're Malkovich, my malkovich. Are you familiar with the movie Avatar Michael?

Of course. Okay. Are you aware it was directed by James Cameron? I am. And you're aware that James Cameron and Bill Paxton are very, very close friends? I am. So, uh, they're buddies. They hang out with each other's families. They go on trips. They're both big scuba divers. Anyway, at some point in the early two thousands, James Cameron calls up Bill Paxton and says, Hey, what are you doing?

And can you come over to my house at seven tonight? And actually, from what I understand about James Cameron, he doesn't even say that. He's like, what are you doing? Come over to my house at seven. Or he'll say like, what are you doing? I'm gonna pick you up in 20 minutes. I'd like that. Yeah, the far future James Cameron episode that may come up.

So anyway, Paxton goes over there and James Cameron says, I've got these two scripts that I'm deciding which to make. And they're both very, very good scripts. I've done a lot of r and d on it. They're both gonna be heavy investments. One of them is this nod to some like Japanese action movie and the other is Avatar.

And so he asked Bill Paxton to read through both scripts and give him his opinion. So Bill Paxton says, you know, I'm, I'm a pretty slow reader. It's gonna take a while, Jim. And he's like, it's fine, do it. So he reads through all the scripts, goes. To Cameron and says, I think you should make this Avatar movie.

It's much more you make this one. And so he did. And end of discussion. They never really talked about it again. And so then Avatar goes on and becomes the top grossing movie of all time. Paxton goes on. Jimmy Kimmel soon after Avatar is around to promote another movie, probably has a big love. He probably goes on as his big love promotion.

And he tells this story about Avatar and he was like, you know, like I'm, I'm really responsible for why that movie got made, or I'm partly responsible. And he was like, you know, you think James Cameron would've like at least sent me a set of golf clubs or something like that. And so he says that thinks nothing of it leaves the studio, goes back home a few days later, there was a package at his house with a set of golf clubs from James Cameron, uh, which is beautiful.

And yeah, it is beautiful. This is the Malov bitch that I love about it. It's that moment when things have happened in the past that are unspoken, that people never acknowledge and that they get spoken through much later on through a gesture. I think it's a fantastic miracle of, of human life that, that those unspoken things can culminate and come up much later.

You know, like we've all had these things that we've known people or had colleagues that we've really helped play a small role in. Something that came out tremendous, but we never get credit for it. Right. And that's fine. Like most of us are at peace for it. Yeah. But to get credit for it unexpectedly in the form of golf clubs and an acknowledgement of the fact that you didn't get credit for it.

I think it's, uh, I think it's an explosion. I think it's a joy explosion. I.

[00:32:41] Michael: That's great, Malcolm. All right, let's take a break,

[00:32:46] Amit: Michael. You know when we go to restaurants and I don't know what to order, then ultimately I'll just ask the server, well, what should I order next? Yeah. And I wish a similar thing existed for other things I consume like, like books did you say?

For books.

[00:33:02] Michael: For books. Oh. Well that's easy if you go to half Price books. There are all kinds of people who work in the store who are excellent at recommending books. Have you ever done this?

[00:33:14] Amit: No, I've never known to ask them. I thought they were

[00:33:16] Michael: just, they are knowledge keepers. They are readers and they're there to say, Hey, how can I help you?

What are you reading these days? What are you

[00:33:24] Amit: into? What are you looking for?

[00:33:26] Michael: I mean, every time I've gotten into a conversation with one of the half Price Books employees, I've always walked out of there with something

[00:33:32] Amit: new. That was excellent. So you're saying I can go ask a half-Price Books book seller if I don't know what to read next, or I'm looking for a gift idea?

I

[00:33:42] Michael: think that's exactly right. You don't need to know what you're gonna buy when you walk into half-price books. And if you just need a book, these people are there to help. And you know what? Half Price Books is the nation's largest new and used book seller with 120 stores in 19 states. And Half Price Books is also online@hpb.com.

Okay. Category four, love and marriage. How many marriages? Also, how many kids, and is there anything public about these relationships? There are two marriages. Kelly Rowan, first wife, 1979. They divorced more or less within a year. Bill was about 24. The story I read is that her mother did not approve. They eloped.

She was also from Texas, and then it just disintegrated. There wasn't a whole lot to say about it. The second marriage is the more important one. Louise Newberry, they met on a bus in London. There's a whole big romantic story about Bill Paxton saw her boarding a bus. They made eye contact. He decides to hop on the bus.

This is in the early eighties, and he swept her off her feet. They were married in 1987. Bill was about 32 at this point. Two children, one of whom is acting now. Bill and Louise were together about 30 years until his death, his son was 23 when Bill died. His daughter was 20. What I saw about the marriage with Louise is that it looked happy, healthy, and beautiful in the years.

I could tell

[00:35:15] Amit: the story is beautiful. It's very cinematic, and it actually just, it is, just hearing him talk about it and reading about it was kind of moving. Yeah, it was very moving and very heartwarming. Just knowing that that can still happen, that does happen. Like seeing, uh, somebody on a bus and following them onto a bus and that serendipity comes together.

I think that's awesome. It's really, really moving. It also

[00:35:36] Michael: feels a little atypical for Hollywood. Like in some ways it, it, there is a kind of prototypical Hollywood life and career here, given the kind of, I don't know, um, storybook version of a Hollywood life. You would also think that there would be, I don't know, a tumultuous personal life somewhere in there, and I'm sure there were ups and downs, but you don't see it in the marriage category.

Not really. It looks like stability and as you said, like romance. Yeah,

[00:36:04] Amit: well you do see it in that there was one failed marriage. What I see in there is just fallibility. It's okay. Yeah. Like there is fallibility and I think one thing I've, we've talked about that I've come through a lot in 51 episodes of this show is that, you know, people are fallible.

You don't have to get it right the first time. It's nice to see somebody that's so beloved does have fallibility. I think that's

[00:36:26] Michael: very well said actually. Yeah, I think that's very well said. So I Do you wanna say anything more? Yeah, you have one more thing on loving marriage. Yeah. So we

[00:36:32] Amit: call love marriage, but it's also family, right?

Yeah. Because we know, we talk about kids a lot. What we don't often go into enough, um, is parents. It was great. Bill Paxton. Yeah.

[00:36:41] Michael: Yeah. So I love, I'm so glad you brought this up.

[00:36:43] Amit: I love the dad stuff. For one, his dad was a very instrumental part in encouraging him to go into acting and, and follow his career.

Yeah. But the better part of this story is his dad was in the lumber business. They did, they had this old family business in hardwoods, and at the age of 70 in his dad. Yeah. And at the age of 70, his dad retired from that. And he tells Bill Paxton, he says, bill, you know, I, I, I think I'm just gonna get into your game.

And Bill's like, what? He's like, I think I'm gonna get into acting. He's like,

[00:37:09] Michael: what? Getting into my game. What the hell are you talking about? He goes, yeah, I think about doing that acting thing. I'm like, dad, God, you're going into the golden years. Don't do this to yourself. He's in six movies. Sam Ramey put him in six of his films.

Actually more than that. Walter Hill put him in last man standing. He's the old undertaker in that. And Bruce Willis keeps giving him business cuz he keeps killing people. And uh, and he had a great kind of renaissance. I think it kind of kept him alive to 91 because he had something to do. I love the full circle of that.

Yeah, I, I, the, the way he described his relationship with his father was really cool. You sensed a real closeness and like source of inspiration for him.

[00:37:47] Amit: I think there's a lot here. We see a successful long marriage, which seems to be loving. We, there was a first marriage. It's just shows we are all fallible.

Great family life. The intergenerational love of that family is really apparent. Overall

[00:38:00] Michael: high marks for family. No question. I think so. Okay. Category five. Not worth, I saw 25

[00:38:07] Amit: million. 25 million higher than I thought. Lower than I thought. Really? For a CoStar? Yeah. But of his big love, big money. Is that what you're thinking?

[00:38:16] Michael: I just think like how prolific in some of these movies. I mean, Titanic and Avatar Alone are on the shortlist of Biggest Box Office of all time. I also think my perspective on this has gotten a little screwy that I was expecting north of 50 because you know, despite the Limp Bizkit notwithstanding, there's not a lot of gaps in his.

Imdb, like he is always doing something. I think he's incredibly prolific and I think each of these jobs comes with a pretty damn good paycheck. Yeah, I, it was

[00:38:50] Amit: higher than I expected, I guess. I don't know what co-stars actually make, but I think my lesson here is that being a co-star is very lucrative.

[00:38:58] Michael: Category six. Yep. Category six, Simpson Cite Live or Halls of Fame. This category is a measure of how famous a person is. We include both guest appearances on SNL or the Simpsons as well as impersonations. Okay. In the Simpson season 12, episode nine, there is mention of a Paxton Pullman joke. That's only kind of funny.

The Homer's in a movie theater. Aley played by Bill Paxton. It's Bill Pullman, you

[00:39:25] Amit: fool. Is this where I can go on a Bill Pax? Bill Pullman tangent. Did you find the

[00:39:31] Michael: Bill Paxton, bill Pullman Paradox

[00:39:32] Amit: website? No. I found an NPR R show where they said how you can remember things and it's how you can remember who is Bill Pullman and who is Bill Paxton.

[00:39:41] Michael: Maybe it was the same thing cuz there's also some educational materials out there about

[00:39:45] Amit: this. Well, the point is, is that we are not alone. You are not alone. Uh, the most of the world confuses the two of them. Um, the difference is that, uh, Pullman. Typically plays a very soft, he's even keeled, he's, uh, fatherly in his roles.

Paxton is more aggressive and more pushy, uh, in his roles. He's a goofball, but, but in your face a little bit, yes. In his roles. Yes. Right? Yes. And so the way to remember who is, who is the Bill Pullman characters, uh, he's more of a pull you closer to him. Uh, a Bill Paxton is more of a push you, uh, away. So it's the opposite.

Oh,

[00:40:22] Michael: this is like a STAC Tights hang tight to the ceiling and STAC mites grow up from the mat on the floor. Yes.

[00:40:28] Amit: It's a hundred percent that. Uh, but everyone, it's okay if you confuse the two

[00:40:34] Michael: snl. Get this. Okay, so you mentioned the Phish head videos 1980. Bill Paxton hosted SNL in 1999. Wow. I thought you would be surprised by that.

He did not have Arsenio Hall appearance. However, the two of them are pictured together at the Premier of Independence Day in 1996, and he does have a Hollywood star, which he got in 2011. I think you and I going into this had disagreements about just how famous Bill Paxton was. You said to me off microphone.

Well, this may be the least recognizable celebrity we've yet done on Famous and Gravy. And I said, are you fucking kidding me? Correct. It's in a text message. I, I think that Bill Paxton is actually a really great litmus test for how much of a movie buff you are. Certainly growing up, I always considered him in a, in a high, high category of fame, although he never does quite penetrate that a plus lister.

But these indicators, to me, are consistent with that, that he hosted SNL and that he has a Hollywood star tells me something about how famous I regarded him,

[00:41:45] Amit: but I don't, and this evidence is interesting, the hosting especially, and the 25 million also. But yeah, I still don't, even after doing all the research, I, I still don't perceive him as that famous in terms of name and face recognition.

Well, I think you're

[00:42:00] Michael: fair. I mean, there's no Bill Paxton like HBO o documentary. I don't, and I don't think there will be one

[00:42:06] Amit: this might. If there was, I

[00:42:08] Michael: might watch it, but I wonder what the point of that story would be. You can understand why some leading Hollywood figures are worthy of a biography in a book or in a movie, or in a multi-part TV series or whatever.

Why isn't Bill Paxton what is absent in his story that makes him, you know, perhaps not worthy of that kind of in-depth biography?

[00:42:33] Amit: I think it's the fact that CoStar was the fourth word in his obituary. I, I think it's as simple as that. To me, it looks like a sweet spot. What we're talking about is like, where does fame contribute in the totality of satisfaction or fulfillment?

Like, this looks delightful to me.

[00:42:48] Michael: Now you're familiar with that study about how much it sucks to win the silver. Like that you'd rather win the bronze than the silver because you can kind of figure this all out. If you win the bronze, you're happy to be there. And if you win the silver, you're like, I almost got the gold.

Yeah. Uh, you know, I do see Paxton as more of a holding the silver medal or holding the bronze medal kind of figure. Yeah. I mean that's, I think the question,

[00:43:14] Amit: right? Or I think's holding this zone, I think he's holding the silver with the gratitude of the bronze. That is something to strive for.

[00:43:21] Michael: Yeah, it is, it is.

Okay, let's go on category seven. Over under, in this category, we look at the life expectancy for the year somebody was born. See if they beat the house odds and as a measure of grace. So the life expectancy for a man born in the US in 1955 is 66.7. Bill Paxton died at 61, so under by about five or six years, uhk.

Unquestionably tragic. Yes. It was a complicated surgery from a childhood condition with grammatic fever. Is that what it was? Yes, it was something. There was some heart surgery that he went in for. Then they performed emergency surgery the second day. Things got complicated. 10 days later, he has a stroke and dies the day before the Oscars.

So I don't know if you saw this, and in, in memorandum in the Oscars that year, Uhhuh, like he was a late addition, and Jennifer Aniston mentions him by name before the actual film roll and w because everybody's still so shocked, uh, for the event. Yeah, she wells up too. Yeah, she is up. Bill Paxton, beloved actor and friend who left us just yesterday, all were loved, sorry, and all

[00:44:36] Amit: will be missed.

So, yeah, unquestionably sad. It was a tragic death. I don't think there's a ton to say about that cuz we, we also had a, a man that didn't know he was dying. Right. Like it was a somewhat botched procedure

[00:44:49] Michael: Yeah. Routine. Or at least not high risk surgery. And there was, I guess we should say a, uh, malpractice suit that was settled outta court, uh, about this for Bill Paxton.

Anyway, um,

[00:45:01] Amit: so. What, so, so what I'm curious about is we, we've got a guy that doesn't know he's dying for, he doesn't think he's gonna live to 66 and a half, most likely he's gonna live until probably his eighties or nineties in his mind, most likely.

[00:45:15] Michael: Yeah. His dad made it to his nineties. It sounded like his mom made it to an old age.

So

[00:45:19] Amit: he was, yeah. Which is, you know, we, we use the, it's an expectancy as a proxy, but we know what we're talking about. Yeah. So the grace we have to look at in a kind of different way in that, how was he aging before that? And I kind of got mixed signals. Cause I saw these interviews where he was like, you know, I'm just kind of in this stage that I was like, I don't know who wants me.

You know, it's like, I'm not, I can't play these like, kind of badass character actors that are in these action adventures. I'm just, I'm playing the dad or the grandpa and. I don't know. It seems like he was kind of going through this miniature crisis of aging and who he was as an actor.

[00:45:58] Michael: I mean, where my mind went to a different place.

Ahed, you and I have tried to talk on our show about how we deal with deaths that skew young. One question that comes up with me in young death, like this is okay, tragic, but is it like, I was gonna say incomplete. I would have liked to see what Bill Paxton did next, and I, I want him as an actor in my life, showing up in unexpected places for the years to come.

And certainly, Lord knows I don't want to die that young. But there is also a kind of cosmic question of, you know, was he robbed? Was it, was this unjust more so than the average bear or something? I don't know. You know, I I, I do think that because he had such gratitude and such a prolific, rich catalog that.

It's hard to make the case that he was like, gypped. I, I'm not trying to speak to tragedy so much as like incompleteness given all other things. So I don't know. Do you have a reaction to that?

[00:47:00] Amit: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I, I would've loved to have seen the third or fourth quarter cause I think there, there could have been a big turn.

There could have been a move away from this CoStar. I think he was robbed, incomplete in the sense of did he do everything that he could have? You know, I have problems with the phrase of live every day as if it's your last, uh, I don't think that quite works as practically. I mean, I think the better advice is just say yes.

Say yes a lot more, which is what he did, and which is where, where I'm giving him kudos and accolades of, uh, life completed for as much as he knew. Yeah. I, I think he said yes to a lot and he took every opportunity he could throughout his life. And that's completion when you don't know when

it's

[00:47:41] Michael: coming.

Given that death is unpredictable. Right. Yeah. And given that the end is always unknown

[00:47:47] Amit: if there's an, at least, you know. Yeah. Right.

[00:47:50] Michael: That's a great way of putting it. I mean, it's an uncomfortable place to go, but I think that there is an at least, yes. I think that's very well said. I like that phrase. I, I wanna have an, at least, you know, that I can rest my head on at the end, you know?

Yeah. It's a good time for a break. Yeah. Fucking I really sad though. All right. Let's take a break. Larry Bird Alive.

[00:48:14] Amit: The rules are simple.

[00:48:16] Michael: Dead are alive, correct? He's 66 years old. Shell Silverstein alive. I'm afraid the sidewalk has ended. No. Uh, and they did in 1999. Oh, shoot. Really? That long ago. Yeah.

Jonathan Goldsmith. Who's that played? The doe's most interesting man in the world? Oh, dead. He's still with us at 84. Oh, wow. I know. Good for him. Test your knowledge. Dead or alive? app.com. Category eight. Let's get to the more introspective questions. First of these is Man in the Mirror. What did they think about their own reflection?

I'm gonna come right out of the gate and say, I don't know. I wrote, I think he liked it. He's very handsome, but he also kind of alternates between stud and goofball, and there's certainly an over the top exaggerated quality that does seem like it's part of the. You know, insecurity that comes with being an actor that I keep speaking to.

Yeah. So, I dunno, where are you? What did you

[00:49:22] Amit: write? Where'd you come to? I came to a yes. Um, I agree with you's, not a, yeah, he's, he's handsome, but he's also like, to use your exact words, he's a goofball on screen. Yeah. A lot of the times, you know, he is not a sex symbol. He's got this gap in his teeth, which is very uncommon for like a man of his stature in Hollywood.

[00:49:41] Michael: Um, well he is got a bit of a guff all laugh too, you know? I mean there's like, there's a lot about him that's sort of goofy. He really does seem, he was in the movie Navy Seals. He seems like a Navy Seal in a way. Not because he is like Uber capable, but he seems like he's in a pack of dudes, you know? Yeah, he's

[00:49:56] Amit: definitely like a dude.

He's also fit, but like subtly, so you're right. You know, like he may be able to kill you with one finger, but you just, you're not gonna know until he does it. But to come back to the question of man in the mirror on, on self-esteem, self-acceptance, all of those things point to Yes, I think he liked it. I think it is his face, it's his whole body.

It's his demeanor. It is everything that allowed him to be your I M D V mvp. I think he's thankful for that. He still talked about how beautiful his wife is and he can't believe that he has this, you know, I, I think there is. So much gratitude built into him that he sees in the mirror the body and soul for which he is grateful.

And this is a man that's not jaded, that was happy to be there. And that's my evidence for, you know,

[00:50:43] Michael: what I, I, I, I agree with all of that and I'm, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna say yes to I think y yes to man in the Mirror. Okay. Category nine, outgoing message, like men in the mirror, how do we think they felt about the sound of their own voice when they heard it on an answering machine?

Also, would they have left it on an outgoing voicemail or, uh, would they use the default setting? I think he loved his voice. I also think, and we haven't really talked about this much like the Texan miss of him, there's something very perfect about him being a Fort Worth guy. Yes. To me. And I think he's got like a great draw and I think he like enjoys talking.

So I'll overall I think, I think he's into his voice. I

[00:51:25] Amit: think he likes it. Yeah. I love his voice too. And you know, you and I Yeah. Are surrounded by Texan voices very frequently. Uh, yeah. But there's something about his that is particularly charming and soothing. I've always

[00:51:35] Michael: been pretty frugal out here, you know, but all of a sudden, one day going from there to, you know, living in the top of the hill, that'll mess your head up.

I guess it will. I guess it will. Again, I've just never had, that'll be normal. He's so normal. It stinks. No, you're not. I'm not normal. I'm obviously, yes, you're, you're pretty normal, comparatively speaking. You're a nice guy. You look at this, his shoes are not even shy. Oh my God. Oh my God. Don't look at those.

The natural

[00:51:59] Amit: voice is likable. It's just very likable. You wanna be his friend. So I think for that reason, uh, that's a yes. Like the sound of his own voice.

[00:52:07] Michael: A hundred percent. All right. Category 10 regrets. Public or private. What we really want to know is what, if anything, kept this person awake at night? I couldn't find anything on the public regrets.

I have two in private. If you look at career opportunities as you amass a certain amount of political capital and you try and cash in at the right moment, you know, cash in, not necessarily in a financial way, but cash in, in like the thing you really want to be doing is twister the high mark. And if so, you know, was that the right one to cash in on?

I don't know. I I I I, I look at the career and wonder what's driving this guy? You know, like is it, does he really wanna win a Oscar? Does he really wanna be the most financially successful? Does he wanna be? And, and maybe it doesn't matter, maybe he just wants a career, but I'm not sure it's like that directed and I wonder a little bit.

So that's, that's my speculative re regret. Yeah,

[00:53:04] Amit: it's funny cuz it's one of the things that we talk about that we, that we like about him is the apparent non-striving. Um, but yeah, will you have to also question is, was what was suppressed there?

[00:53:15] Michael: The seeming ease, uh, uh, you know, is, it looks appealing, but I'm, I wonder how real that is.

I just don't believe, you know, I think it's all an illusion. Yep. The other regret I have was much darker, and maybe we don't even have to go there, but I do wonder, uh, about seeing a better doctor

[00:53:32] Amit: for his heart condition. Yeah. I mean, no doubt it, they, there was a lawsuit that resulted in a million dollar award to the family.

I don't think that it was for the money, but it was a wrongful death. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's such a nightmare. All

[00:53:45] Michael: right. I'm gonna pose a dark question, and maybe we use this, maybe we don't, I don't know. I don't know how much pain he's in those last 10 days, but we know he lasts about 10 days from the initial surgery till he has his stroke.

Mm-hmm.

Is that enough time to make peace? I don't know. People sometimes tell you, you know, go the throt experiment of like, what if you had a year to live? That's almost too much time. 10 days. I don't know. Is, is that a haunting, terrifying thought to you

[00:54:16] Amit: if I was told I had 10 days to live? Um,

[00:54:21] Michael: it's haunting and terrifying to me in a way, but I do feel like anybody I need to connect with 10 days feels like enough time to say the things unsaid.

You know? Yeah. I don't know. I, I don't may, man, I don't

[00:54:33] Amit: know if I have to, but, but I don't know if you can come to peace with the missed opportunity and the things that, you know, you can come to that inner piece to say the things unsaid and say the things to the people that are meaningful or the people that, that, um, You know, you need to make peace with, but I don't know that that alleviates what you are gonna miss out

[00:54:53] Michael: on.

No, of course. But this is our fucked up relationship with death overall is that we have this expectation. I think, that we are supposed to do certain things that we are en entitled to certain opportunities in light missed opportunities that we've been robbed. Right. And I, to me, honestly, this is one of the bigger things hanging over Bill Paxton's life in terms of desirability.

There is a lot to, like here, there's a life of gratitude. There's a healthy, happy family. There's a really rich, interesting career. You know, we get to regrets and I'm wondering what kept him awake at night. I don't see, like, fuck, I didn't get to do what? I don't know what that, the, the, the, the fill in the blank is there, what did he not get to do?

That's why I asked this question about if you had 10 days. I, I know that in that 10 days, I would want to. Tell everybody I love them and try and offer whatever words of wisdom. And I, I might have some request about my legacy, otherwise I would hope to just make pieces. This is death and, and, and that's it.

Yeah. I

[00:55:53] Amit: can, I can't do that. I need a lot more than 10 days. I do believe many people can, I do believe that there are people that have that inner foundation regardless of their age. That yeah, 10 days they can pre grieve and, and be very, very sad. Um,

[00:56:06] Michael: well, without knowing anymore, do you think Bill Paxton did?

[00:56:10] Amit: No. No. I think resolve, I think peace.

[00:56:16] Michael: Okay. I think I agree. Second to last category, cocktail coffee or cannabis. This is where we ask which one would we most want to do with our dead celebrity. So maybe a question of what drug sounds like the most fun to partake with this person or another philosophy is that a particular kind of drug might allow access to a part of them.

We are most curious about. I wrote cannabis, obviously. Right? How is it

[00:56:41] Amit: obvious? I, I would think, oh,

[00:56:42] Michael: I just wanna fucking hang out and laugh with Bill Paxton over Pong hits. Are you kidding me? I mean, I look, I could also see beer. I think I'd laugh a lot. I think he's got great timing. I think he's got great stories.

I don't know if you saw this story about everybody getting dosed with P C P on Titanic. Yes. You know, I'm shooting all night. I'm feeling about as good as you can feel. And he said, well, did you eat the clam chowder? And I thought, well, yeah, I had a couple of bowls and uh, and about that time I started feeling it now and starting to witness some bizarre behavior.

With the crew and stuff. So all of a sudden here's 150 crew members stumbling into the emergency room of a very small hospital at one o'clock in the morning. You see some people are freaking out, some people are Congo dancing. Some people are are euphoric. I knew I was pretty stoned on something pretty bad, and I thought we, me and Jim thought that it was, there was a neurotoxin in the clams, but I figured who, while they examined all these other a hundred people, I said to Jim, I said, Jim, I'm, I'm not gonna hang out here.

This is Bedlam. I'm gonna water back down and just drink a case of beer, which is what I did that seemed to help me. I wanna party with him and I think like a few bong rips and, and some cheaper and you know, we're hanging out. So, yeah, I wrote cannabis obviously. That's my answer. I just wanna hang, I don't have curiosity here.

I just wanna hang.

[00:58:03] Amit: What do you got? I've got the curiosity. It's also through cannabis. I'm being a little sneakier with it though, because I am doing the hanging, but I'm also trying to understand how this guy, it just seems to be in such good flow. It seems like the past is integrated. The future isn't, uh, a tremendous worry.

He seems to be very happy being this mix of a, of a silver and bronze medal. And I, I don't know, I just see a lot of acceptance in this guy and I wanna. Pick up the cues for it. I don't know that I necessarily need to ask him about it. I might, I might. It depends on the strain. Um, but I, I would get that from the hang, you know, this is a, yeah, this is a, this is like an uncle type of hang with me and Bill Paxton, I think more than it is like the backyard beers with Norm McDonald.

[00:58:51] Michael: It's so interesting. Ammond, I'm not sure you and I are a hundred percent aligned on that, on that gratitude piece, I mostly see it, I see more cracks of insecurity and maybe it's just cuz we're, you know, working with a different kind of character who it's, he's a little bit harder to pin down because there is no definitive life story and there may never be, which sort of disappointing to me if that's true.

Anyway, we've, we had this conversation. Yes. All leading up to this moment. The VanDerBeek named after James VanDerBeek, who famously said in Varsity Blues, I don't want your life. Ah, based on everything we've talked about, do you want Bill Paxton's life?

[00:59:30] Amit: You've got me questioning now on this. Like, can we, do we really know this guy's insecurities?

Cause I was pretty certain I did. I feel like I watched enough, I listened to enough. I, I felt like I was with Bill Paxton over the last several days. You know, this, this part of this question is that we are, we're looking at these people with as much information as we can get, and we study as fast and intensely as we can, but we're still kind of using them as a literary character.

You know, do we want this literary character who happens to be a real person's life? And everything I saw, like, I just, I saw enjoyment. I saw so much enjoyment. Yeah. It just, it seems like he just, he was really enjoying the ride. And I think that guy experienced more joy in an hour of an interview than I sometimes go through in a month.

And I really, really liked envied and admired that the things he did and saw his contributions as subtle as they were. Like, this is a guy that you know, because he appeared in such a wide breadth of things, had friendships with so many people for that very reason, touched all these little things from me watching Phish heads at six years old, to people wanting to be storm chasers to the avatar story.

This guy was all over everything. Like his butterfly effect impact on everything is is huge. So I think there's significance there. And to do that and to enjoy it despite being robbed. And by no means am I saying that I want my life to end at, at. 61, and I would be severely disappointed. But you know, I wouldn't mind, uh, or rather, I would enjoy, I would enjoy all of the rest of it.

And, you know, if, if I have to chase someone down on a bus to live that, it looks like a good life. To me, it looks like a significant one. It looks like an enjoyable one and meaningful. So yes, I want your life Bill

[01:01:25] Michael: Paxton. I mean, I, that's a, that's a compelling argument. It's not so much about legacy that I have.

Pause. Dying at 61 is easily the biggest case against saying, yes, I want this life that does feel young, even if it is a very full enrich. And in many ways, as complete as 61 can be for whatever reason today I've had a real hesitation about a life as an actor and a life in Hollywood. There's something about his story, as best I see it, that.

Does sort of remind me of the CD underbelly of Hollywood that, you know, your ass is on the line as an actor. Always like the who am I self worth validation. How do I look, how do I sound? Do they want me around or not? I, I, I guess what I'm trying to say is there's something about like, just the job that even though I am unbelievably impressed with his catalog, I don't think I want that job.

I, I, I think what I can't tell with Bill Paxton in a funny way is if he enjoys getting the part or if he enjoys acting more. And I think that there's a small difference there. I think he likes the moment he gets cast and he has a little bit more job security for the next role, and then he'll give it whatever he has to do.

But whether or not he's actually having fun on camera, I, I mean, I think he, he probably is, but if I had to guess, I almost feel like he's more excited about the whole thing than he is about the art and craft of acting specifically. Right. I think, I think he can do it, but I don't know that he is more alive, more whatever, when the camera's on versus when the camera's off.

I would prefer there'd be. The praise comes for having done the job and having like accomplished something unique and creative. I think he was very, very good, but I don't think he was great. I think the reason there's not gonna be a biography on him or a biopic on him is nobody's gonna say, this guy was De Niro or Marlon Brando, or Daniel Day Lewis.

You know, he was just very good and something about that falls a little short for me. I don't know why I'm holding this one to a higher standard, but something in here is giving me pause. I don't quite see a creative catharsis in a way that I feel like needs to happen if you're gonna commit yourself to a life of art and creativity.

It looks to me more like he committed himself to the entertainment industry. Not necessarily bad, but it's not what I want, so I'm a no. I don't want your life. Bill Paxton.

I think we've arrived. Amit, you are Bill Paxton. You have died. You've, uh, ascended to the heavens. You are meeting St. Peter a surrogate for the afterlife. You have an opportunity to make a pitch about your great contribution to the stream of life. The floor is

[01:04:43] Amit: yours. I'm so glad you used the phrase stream of life, because that is exactly my contribution was I rode the stream of life.

I was not a leading actor. I didn't necessarily need to be one, but I was everywhere else, and I said yes to a lot of things and look at the friendships I made. Look at the experiences I had. Look at the contributions that I not only made to very important movies and TV shows, but the contributions I indirectly made to influencing other people, to having them accept weirdness to look into different careers.

What I did and what I left on this earth was. An encouragement to say yes, an encouragement to look at the things and look at the opportunities in front of you. Don't hesitate. Follow a heart. Say yes. Let me in.

[01:05:48] Michael: Famous and gravy listeners, do you wanna participate in the opening quiz where we reveal the dead celebrity? Then send us an email to hello famous en gravy.com. Recordings usually take just a few minutes, and we love hearing from you. If you're enjoying our show, please tell your friends about us. You can find us on Twitter.

Our handle is at Famous En Gravy. We also have a newsletter, which you can sign up for on our website, famous en gravy.com. Famous en Gravy was created by Amit Kapoor and me, Michael Osborne. This episode was produced by Jacob Weiss, original theme music by Kevin Strang. Thank you so much for listening. See you next time.