066 Let’s Get Metaphysical transcript (Olivia Newton-John)

Listen to the full episode and see show notes at this link.

[00:00:00] Amit: This is Famous Gravy, Life Lessons from Dead Celebrities. Now the opening quiz to reveal today's dead celebrity.

[00:00:08] Michael: This person died 2022, age 73. For years, she was a prominent advocate for cancer research, starting a foundation in her name.

[00:00:18] Friend: Susan B. Anthony, I don't know.

[00:00:20] Michael: Not Susan B. Anthony, but that sounds like something she might have done. All right. She amassed number one hits, chart topping albums and four records that sold more than two million copies each. More than anything else, she was likable, even beloved.

[00:00:36] Friend: Oh, I don't know. Nothing? Nope.

[00:00:40] Michael: Okay, what kind of music do you listen to?

[00:00:41] Friend: I just did my Spotify rap, so. Oh, really? Yeah. Um, my number one was Taylor Swift.

[00:00:45] Michael: This is a kind of, this gal is a little bit of a Okay. We'll see. Okay. We'll see. There's some relationship there. Alright. Her consistently benign music, she was never a favorite of critics, and comely but squeaky clean image caused many to compare her to Doris Day and Sandra Dee.

[00:01:04] Friend: I have no idea, I was going to say Aretha Franklin, but

[00:01:08] Michael: Oh, it's not a bad guess. That was 20, that was like 2020, right? Yeah, yeah, in the ballpark. 2021. Yeah, no, she's, she's dead. The song, I Honestly Love You. won her two of her four Grammys.

[00:01:18] Friend: Wow. Can you use it in a sentence or sing the song?

[00:01:21] Michael: I refuse to do that. It's a fair request, but no. Okay, fine. She played Sandy in the musical Grease.

[00:01:29] Friend: Oh my gosh, it's Olivia Newton John. I'm like literally shaking my head right now.

[00:01:34] Michael: Today's dead celebrity is Olivia Newton John.

[00:01:40] Archival: I'm going to ask you to go back in time. What was there in your childhood that you wanted that your parents never gave you? Wow, that's an interesting question. No one's ever asked me that question. I guess, um, a happy home. Um, my parents were not Not happy, uh, there was a lot of fighting and I had a real problem with raised voices for many years after that.

[00:02:04] I always thought the relationship was over if you had an argument.

[00:02:12] Michael: Welcome to Famous and Gravy. I'm Michael Osborne.

[00:02:15] Amit: And my name is Amit Kapoor. Michael and I are looking for ways to make life better.

[00:02:20] Michael: And we believe that the best years might lie ahead. So on this show, we choose a celebrity who died in the last ten years and we go through a series of categories.

[00:02:29] Reviewing their lives to extract wisdom and inspiration. At the end, we answer the question, would I want that life today? Olivia Newton John died 2022, age 73, category one, grading the first line of their obituary, Olivia Newton John, who sang some of the biggest hits of the 1970s and eighties while recasting her image as the virginal girl next door into a spandex clad vixen.

[00:03:00] A transformation reflected in miniature by her starring role in Grease, one of the most popular movie musicals of its era, died on Monday at her ranch in Southern California. She was 73.

[00:03:13] Amit: Is this our longest sentence ever?

[00:03:16] Michael: It's incredible. It is comical how, uh, complicated this sentence is. I love it,

[00:03:21] Amit: but that's the whole reason we have this category.

[00:03:22] Yeah, it is. It's exactly right. Thank you, New York Times. You've disappointed us in the last several episodes. You've given us quite a bit

[00:03:28] Michael: to work with. And you're back. Yeah. Okay.

[00:03:30] Amit: My question to you, what, what words stand out the most? I

[00:03:35] Michael: mean, it's a little hard to look past a virginal girl next door.

[00:03:39] Virginal to vixen. Virginal to vixen, spandex clad vixen, you know, transformation reflected in miniature. Yeah, what the hell is that? I, well, no, I get it. I understand it. Can you explain it? So, okay, let me start by saying I think that this is incredibly well done from just a pure story perspective. That Olivia Newton John had this, call it virginal girl next door image for the early part of her career.

[00:04:06] Yes. And then she transforms into more of a sex symbol or a, you know, a vixen, if you will. Oh, I see where you're going. And that transformation happened in miniature inside the movie Grease. So

[00:04:18] Amit: the two hours of Grease was a metaphor for the entire life of Olivia Newton John. Well, you Or at least those two decades of Olivia Newton John.

[00:04:26] Yes. The second

[00:04:27] Michael: thing you said there is more accurate, I think. Yes. Her, what we know her for, her singing career. Grease and some of her music that followed. You know, that transformation kind of happened inside a movie that was a runaway success. Got it. And then that's it. Okay. And then she died. So, the story does, at least as it's told here, kind of end in the 1980s.

[00:04:47] Amit: And it sort of really ends in like the early 80s. Yeah, I mean,

[00:04:51] Michael: I think Physical was her last, you know, smash hit. But I, uh, one thing that I failed to appreciate before getting ready for this episode was what a

[00:04:59] Amit: massive star she was. Yeah, I want to talk about that as we get into it. Did you know that? No, I didn't.

[00:05:04] Yeah. I didn't. She, Angela Lansbury'd me.

[00:05:07] Michael: She Angela Lansbury'd

[00:05:09] Amit: you, but we got off track. So what you're saying is like this obituary sort of ends in the mid 80s, but her whole humanitarian efforts in the 35 years that followed were gigantic.

[00:05:21] Michael: Yeah, I mean, if you're including humanitarian efforts in terms of environmental activism and cancer research.

[00:05:27] Yes. Born out of her own diagnosis. Yes, it does not speak at all to her contributions, which I guess is fair from a news perspective. What you know her for was the singing career as well as Greece.

[00:05:41] Amit: It's the Shirley Temple problem.

[00:05:43] Michael: Totally. Totally. I think that, like, the mentions of her battles with cancer and the public battles with cancer, and we'll get into the fact that she's got a research center named after her later, were so large and were so impactful that I wouldn't have been surprised to see them here, actually.

[00:06:02] I think she was a little bit pioneering in terms of her efforts to be somebody battling cancer in public. Correct. But this

[00:06:09] Amit: obit writer was too obsessed with colorful adjectives and vivid descriptions. There's absolutely

[00:06:16] Michael: no room to do anything else here. Transformation I think is an actually, uh, I guess it's the right word.

[00:06:23] Well, let me offer one reaction about this. When you look at later interviews of Olivia Newton John, and she talks about physical and talks about being, I don't know if you want to call it sex positive or a little bit more overtly sexual, she seems to express a real discomfort. After Physical, I did a photoshoot with Helmut Newton, who is a very, very famous worldwide photographer.

[00:06:48] And he had me do these very sexy shots. Um, I was really uncomfortable with that look, but I did it because the record company were kind of asking for a little more sexy look. So after that I kind of went back to being

[00:07:02] Amit: myself.

[00:07:03] Michael: Like, it's not like Madonna, who I think, you know, became sort of a sex positive pioneer in a way, you know what I mean?

[00:07:09] And so, I guess I'm pointing to the word transformation here a little bit, because she kind of transformed back into a wholesome, girl next door type after the heyday of the early 80s. You're right,

[00:07:22] Amit: they didn't give a nod to the re transformation, or the middle ground, I think, is the safer Well, and I

[00:07:29] Michael: think more than anything that it's a transformation of a public image, I'm less convinced it's a personal transformation.

[00:07:36] And so I think that's the only reason I wanted to kind of highlight it. I don't think it's wrong because we're talking about her public persona and what you know her for, but I do think it's perhaps misleading. That's

[00:07:47] Amit: incredibly astute, Michael, because I think that's very, very accurate. It's a public persona.

[00:07:51] It is not the individual Olivia Newton John that transformed best as we can see. Right. That question

[00:07:57] Michael: of what can we see is going to recur a lot in this conversation. Yeah. Okay, so where are you at with this? I'm ready to go.

[00:08:04] Amit: Okay. What do you got? I like the color. Yeah, I do. I do. It's a fun first line. It is, yeah.

[00:08:10] And we, I just, we've been needing that. Yeah. So I, I like that. So a lot of bonus for that. There's two omissions, right? Like we said, the whole contribution thing. Yeah. Outside of entertainment, there was also not the mention of let's get physical, which I just, ah, I just wanted. See those words. These

[00:08:26] Michael: are those words.

[00:08:35] Amit: So at least one of the two, as we talked about, it's very difficult to get the second half of life when it's not what you know them for, even though it might be what you should know them for. Or what

[00:08:46] Michael: we'd like to remember them for. What the bigger legacy may ultimately

[00:08:49] Amit: be. Correct. But that's the point of Our show.

[00:08:52] Right. Not the point of the first line. Right. So I'm not docking for that. Could've used, let's get physical, but I'm, I'm, I'm going pretty high. I'm gonna go an eight. That's exactly

[00:09:01] Michael: what I had. Isn't eight. There is a part of me that's like, somebody's having a little too much fun here. Uh, and I don't want to dock 'em for it necessarily, but like.

[00:09:09] This sentence is ridiculous. And then I agree with the lack of physical. I think that's actually the thing I would have known her for more. Grease is up there, obviously, but it's a close, like, those are neck and neck in terms of pop culture contribution that I will remember her for. All right. Category two, five things I love about you.

[00:09:29] Here, Amit and I come up with five reasons why we love this person, why we want to be talking about them in the first place. I can start. I just want you to know that it is pretty on the nose.

[00:09:40] Amit: So how can I, like, wait for that then?

[00:09:42] Michael: All right. I said permanent positivity. She is always smiling. She is always a ray of sunshine.

[00:09:50] Whether or not that is actually reflective of her inner life, I think is a different question. But she is always trying to bring the ray of sunshine energy. People have described my wife that way at times. Um, I know her really well, so the sun is not always shining. But Allison, I think, is a real ray of sunlight at times.

[00:10:09] And I have a couple of friends in my life who are kind of like that. Like, they're just like, it's not just that they have a lot of gratitude, although I think that's where this comes from. It's that their, like, predisposition is positive. It is a defining character trait of who they are. And I think it's good energy to be around.

[00:10:28] And I think this woman is Very, very positive, and I'm grateful for people like that in the world. I want them to be singing songs, I want them to be in movies, and I want to be in proximity to them. Because I think, like, we need that. We need hope and gratitude and radiant energy, and she seems to be permanently positive.

[00:10:48] To

[00:10:48] Amit: me, that's useless without believability. You're ascribing believability to her positivity?

[00:10:54] Michael: I don't know, honestly. Because I do also Since something not superficial, but I had to fight through a superficial interpretation of Olivia Newton John to arrive at This thing number one that I love about her?

[00:11:10] Mm hmm. Um, like, do I actually believe it? I think it depends on how I'm feeling that day. I had somebody say to me the other day, I've been saying this a lot, I think you'll like it. If you run into three assholes in your day, you're the asshole. Which is just another way of saying the energy we put out into the world, you know, reflects back on us.

[00:11:30] I don't know if believability matters, Amit. I mean, I do believe it, but I think that the willingness to believe it is a question for me, not for her. She's bringing it, no matter what, and I love her

[00:11:40] Amit: for that. Well, let me ask this. Is this an age thing? So, you're, you're 45 years old now. Yes. Would 30 year old Michael Osborne say, I love that this person is universally positive?

[00:11:51] I think yes,

[00:11:52] Michael: although I value Yeah, but I think I value it more with age. No doubt. Yeah. I mean, when I Go to a bar or a party or a concert or whatever, you know, I look for smiles to be reciprocated and I look for, you know, community and groups where like the, the energy is elevated and uplifted. And I think that that requires contributions from people who have that kind of energy and are intentional about it, like Olivia Newton John.

[00:12:20] Amit: I'm with you. I'm with you, and I'm certainly with you at this day and age. Yeah. I just haven't always

[00:12:24] Michael: been. I hear you, and I agree, and I think it's complicated.

[00:12:29] Amit: Okay. You take number two. Number two. She was Taylor before Taylor. And this is, I think, what you hinted at is the level of her stardom pre Greece.

[00:12:38] Yeah. I had no idea. I had no idea. Uh, so I'm just gonna do just a few statistics. That's the only way I know to do this. Up until Taylor Swift, Olivia Newton-John held the world record for the shortest period between two number one albums. Wow. That was 154 days, less than half a year. Those two albums were, if you love me, let me know.

[00:13:00] And then have you ever been mellow? And then Taylor Swift comes round in 2020, so the record has been held for 44 years. And comes out with folklore and then evermore 140 days to later. Ooh. And beats Olivia's record. I'm gonna rattle off two more statistics 'cause these are fun. Okay. After Linda Ronstadt, she was the second woman to have two singles in the billboard.

[00:13:24] Top five, very Taylor Swift. Wow. Let's Get Physical, which we talked about. Did you know? That it was the number one song of the entire 1980s?

[00:13:34] Michael: I learned it during the research. I couldn't believe that. That's nutso. I mean, I would have come up with a lot other candidates before I would have proposed Let's Get

[00:13:41] Amit: Physical.

[00:13:42] So we look at where Taylor Swift is today. Dominates music. She dominates even film. She dominates the NFL. Yes. She's the greatest of all time. They love saying that word, the GOAT. Yeah. It's like we've never seen anyone like this before. Yeah. But I think we have, and Olivia Newton John seems to be that. And it's because our memory is just generationally short.

[00:14:01] We're incapable of remembering previous generations. And this goes to what you hinted at from our last episode, that like, people are saying, well, Bill Russell could not have been the greatest of all time because there's Michael Jordan and LeBron James. It just seems there's a recency bias in all of this.

[00:14:17] And that's what we have here, is that she was Taylor before Taylor.

[00:14:20] Michael: I'm glad you spoke to it. I think that there's a real tradition on our podcast to try and not have the present moment feel so disconnected from the past, right? And I think that part of what we're doing on this show is trying to reset our relationship to both fame and time, and in that way I

[00:14:37] Amit: think it's a really good point.

[00:14:38] And this is very, very important. I am a Taylor Swift fan, so I do not want Swifties coming after me because of the damage they can do. I do not want my, my computer hacked, my phone hacked, whatever they are capable of. It has been stated. Please know I am a Taylor Swift fan. I am not a detractor. I'm merely making a point.

[00:14:56] I have a

[00:14:57] Michael: question for you on Olivia Newton John. Yes. Where are you with her music?

[00:15:00] Amit: Uh, ugh. Yeah. With the exception of the Grease soundtrack and Let's Get Physical. But I listen to a lot of those 70s Yeah. kind of country tracks. Yeah. And even the ones after it. No. I don't understand,

[00:15:10] Michael: cause I was just a country girl being brought up on the land.

[00:15:16] Shall

[00:15:22] Amit: I take number three? Yeah.

[00:15:24] Michael: I'm going to go with ayahuasca pioneer. Ah. I had to. Okay. Her second husband, uh, John Easterling, was called like Amazon John or something. Amazon John, yeah. Amazon

[00:15:33] Amit: John. And, and he Wait, second husband and final husband. And final

[00:15:36] Michael: husband. Her resting husband. Correct. Correct. What she describes as the love of her life as well.

[00:15:40] He, uh, is a businessman and has spent tremendous amounts of time in the Amazon, coming back to the West with, uh, medicinal plants and learning about indigenous, uh, traditions and so forth. Olivia Newton John, I was about to call her Taylor Schlicht. He took Olivia Newton It'll be okay. As a first date, basically.

[00:16:00] They had known each other for a while, but they had never been connected in intimate. Olivia Newton John does a trip to Brazil and Peru with Amazon John. And during that trip, this is in like the early 2005s or mid 2005s. Okay. But, so at some point in this trip, he says, do you want to try this? And it's like a capful.

[00:16:22] So she doesn't do the full ritual, but she ends up having, and I read about this in her autobiography, like intense visions of, you know, complicated truth about who she is and how she understands, you know, the truth of herself and describes this very, very beautiful scene in the Amazon rainforest with her would be future husband, Amazon, John Easterling.

[00:16:47] Here's why I love it. One, I'm very interested in how we are trying to reintroduce psychedelics into mental health today, right, in the West. I think it's a good thing. I also do think that the willingness to give this a go tells me something about her that I had a really hard time finding anywhere else.

[00:17:08] Yeah, yeah. I think it tells me something about her willingness to go deeper into her own self and to see herself. And I love that she was doing this before everybody else. Like, hopped on board and discovered the power of ayahuasca. Yeah. So, that's my number

[00:17:24] Amit: three. Okay, two millennial parallels we're kind of making here.

[00:17:27] Yeah. Right, me with the Taylor Swift and you with the ayahuasca. I think, I think Olivia Newton John really might have been born a couple decades too early. That's a really good point. Or several decades too early. This woman

[00:17:36] is

[00:17:37] Michael: timeless. Okay, what do you

[00:17:38] got?

[00:17:38] Amit: Number four, um, grateful mother. Yeah, yeah. So, she has one child, Chloe.

[00:17:44] And Chloe now is a marijuana farmer. But she dabbled in entertainment for a while, but she had troubles, right? She's dealt with addiction, she dealt with problems with plastic surgery, which is a whole other story, but not an easy ride. Yeah. For Chloe. Yeah. And that's a lot of troubles to put on a mother.

[00:18:02] Whenever I saw Olivia Newton John speak about Chloe, it was always with just such passion. Positivity, as you said in your first point, but so grateful she's like, I have a child. You know, she's just so happy that she has a child. Yeah. And here's what I really like about this is that I just happen to come across those clips in sequence.

[00:18:22] First, I saw the ones about Chloe and all of her troubles, and then you see the ones about Olivia saying, you know, we've dealt with these things and I'm just so thankful I have a child. Yeah. Describe

[00:18:33] Michael: that moment that you bring Chloe into the world. Oh, gosh. You know, you have moments in your life that, uh, just.

[00:18:41] You can't top them. That was the most wonderful experience. And she was so beautiful, but she made me laugh. And she still makes me laugh. And she's still beautiful and sensitive and gorgeous.

[00:18:54] Amit: For any person that struggles, which you and I have talked about a lot. We've both faced our struggles. I think, Every single human being that goes through adulthood struggles in some way, and most of them in some major way, at least to themselves, at least to their families.

[00:19:15] Michael: It's a fundamental premise of our podcast. Yes.

[00:19:18] Amit: But. If you can remember that there is at least one, most of the time, at least two people that are so grateful that you were just on this earth. Yeah. That is greater than any rehab center or penicillin or whatever is gonna cure what ails you. Yeah, and again, I stumbled upon this on accent, but it was just a good reminder.

[00:19:43] To me, and I hope it just echoes that anytime anybody struggles in adulthood, you have to remember how grateful you're. Parents were and are that you are in this world.

[00:19:58] Michael: Damn man, that's

[00:19:58] Amit: beautiful. And she

[00:19:59] Michael: was a good example of that. Do you have a number five you really like? Because what I was going to go with was the ONJCRI.

[00:20:06] The what a? Olivia Newton John Cancer Research Institute. The Onchocree? Exactly. Yeah, she has a research institute named after her in, uh, in Melbourne. And I think that's a hell of a legacy. I think that's great. You want to go with that one? Yeah. Okay. That's a great one to leave with. ONJCRI. I read the mission statement, by the way.

[00:20:26] Shall I read this? Yeah. Okay. A message from our founding champion. In a world of uncertainty, hope has never been more important. The vital research being done by the dedicated team at the ONJCRI provides real hope to a global population that we will one day live in a world beyond cancer. Okay. And there's a picture of her with a lab coat and a lot of scientists behind her.

[00:20:47] Amit: Lovely. My

[00:20:48] Michael: life has become very important about healing and helping people heal, whether it's from going through the cancer experience or any other kind of experience. And the billboard that I'm most proud of is the one at my hospital, where I have my name with the Cancer Wellness Research Center, because I know it's going to go on and help people, and eventually we'll find the cure for cancer.

[00:21:08] And that's my, my dream, my wish. More than Greece, more than all the hits, more than Ten weeks is number one. Oh, yeah, of course. Shall we recap? Yep. Okay, so, number one, I said permanent positivity. Number two, you said Taylor before Taylor. Taylor before Taylor. Number three, I said ayahuasca pioneer. Number four I said grateful to be a mother.

[00:21:29] Grateful to be a mother. And then finally, the O N J C R L. Okay. I just like saying six letters together. Uh, okay. Let's take a break.

[00:21:41] Amit: Michael, you know one thing that's very difficult about being a world famous podcaster? Uh huh. Is I just don't interact with very many people. It's hard to connect with the common man. It is, and you would think somebody of my level of infamy and notoriety would just be surrounded by intriguing conversations.

[00:21:58] Michael: I think that there's a way of solving that. I think it's about where you go. What are the spaces where you encounter the kind of people you want to talk

[00:22:04] Amit: to? Oh, uh, park benches, tree climbing.

[00:22:09] Michael: Can I offer a suggestion? Have you been to half priced books lately?

[00:22:13] Amit: I have, but as usual I just cover myself in a ball cap and sunglasses and keep my

[00:22:20] Michael: head down.

[00:22:20] No, no, no. This is the place to go to actually have engaging conversations with people behind the counter as well as people in the aisles. I've been going there a lot lately for our show, the other day I said, Hey, I'm looking for a biography of Burt Reynolds, Angela Lansbury, Leonard Cohen, Nora Ephron, and Gene Wilder.

[00:22:38] Can you help? And I found myself in the greatest conversation about the wide range of biographies that are out there, and what makes for a good biography overall. You're gonna have the kind of conversations you wanna have. and meet the kind of people you want to meet at half price books. Do you know where to

[00:22:52] Amit: go?

[00:22:53] You know, I think I'm just going to check out the all new HPB. com, where I can find my local store, plan my next trip, maybe even buy online to pick up in store, possibly create a wish list, and more.

[00:23:05] Michael: I like it. Start on the internet, work your way to the store. Category three. Malkovich, Malkovich. This category is named after the movie Being John Malkovich, in which people take a portal into John Malkovich's mind, and they can have a front row seat.

[00:23:22] So, in 2003, Olivia Newton John lost her mother, who we should mention, very briefly, is the daughter of a Nobel Prize winner, who was, Max Born, his name was? He was, uh, good buddies with Albert Einstein, and he was, uh, an incredible Physicist. She had, comes from a lot of academic stock,

[00:23:42] Amit: because her father Yeah, I mean, he was big, big time.

[00:23:44] Big, big time. And Max Born, what a great physicist's name. I know,

[00:23:46] Michael: Max, Max Born, the great scientist. Alright, 2003, Olivia Newton John's mother dies. She sang the song, I Honestly Love You, to her mother, on her mother's deathbed. I chose this as a Malkovich because I got a little curiosity around this.

[00:24:06] Amit: She's

[00:24:06] Michael: sung this song thousands of times.

[00:24:10] And she chooses to sing it to her mother as her mother's dying. Mm hmm. I think that's beautiful, but it also feels corny. And it gets back to your earlier question about believability of her positivity. You know? I I I can't tell if this is, like, Olivia the performer, Olivia the daughter. Oh, gosh. That is surreal.

[00:24:33] Um, I wouldn't be able to put into words what that was like. I just It was a way of my telling her I loved her in a way that she could receive it. Because the last thing that goes when you're dying is your hearing. And I knew that. And I just wanted her to Her last memory to be my voice and telling her I loved her.

[00:24:57] I know I have to let some of my corny apprehension, like, fall to the wayside to see this as actually beautiful because it sounds like something out of a Hallmark movie, and yet it's real. It's a Malkovich for me because the question I have that I don't think we'll find resolution on is the inner Olivia life,

[00:25:17] Amit: right?

[00:25:18] I'm very, very

[00:25:19] Michael: curious to know about her relationship to her public self and her relationship to her performative self, because it looks like a life where fame and celebrity and money has instilled a real distance between those two self perceptions. But maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe she is believable.

[00:25:39] Maybe she is a lot more authentic than I'm willing to give her credit for. And so that's my Malkovich moment.

[00:25:45] Amit: What are you going to go with? Okay, so I'm going to play you a clip. Alright. Then I want to discuss it, then I'll get into the Malkovich. Alright.

[00:25:51] Michael: The odds of beating a recurrent cancer using the newest emergent therapies is one thousand fold greater than someone appearing out of the blue, buying your most famous and cherished icon and returning it to you, which is what I'm going to do right now.

[00:26:17] It should not sit in a billionaire's closet for country club bragging rights.

[00:26:23] Amit: So he said. The odds of beating cancer with these new therapies are a thousand times greater than a billionaire showing up and giving you this cherished gift. So that clip was from 2019. They held an auction of a lot of Olivia Newton John's books.

[00:26:44] Possessions to raise money for her cancer center thing. Number five. Yeah, amongst those were her grease outfits Two of the most prominence the leather jacket in the spandex pants Which she had to be sewn into which she had to be sewn into correct. So these spandex pants were Bought by, this is just so perfectly, by Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx.

[00:27:06] Oh. I'm like, that's going to be something brilliant one day in a marketing campaign. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The leather jacket was bought by an anonymous billionaire for 243, 000. Wow. The anonymous billionaire then Arranges to meet Olivia Newton-John a few days later and presents it to her and says, I am the anonymous billionaire that bought this jacket and I am now want to give it back to you.

[00:27:34] It's rightful owner. The money still goes to charity, but it belongs to you and it should go in your cancer center. Wow. Okay, so that's what happened. And you would think that would be the Malkovich. Like, this is a beautiful moment. Somebody spent 250, 000 on essentially just a straight donation.

[00:27:54] Michael: They spent it on an experience, really.

[00:27:56] Amit: Yeah. But that is nice. That is nice. It's really nice to be on the other end of that, on Olivia Newton John's end of that, right? She even teared up at that moment. However, does this asshole have to say that the odds of it are 1, 000? That of you beating cancer and I am a billionaire?

[00:28:22] Michael: I now see the Malkovich.

[00:28:23] Uh, so is the question what's going through her mind as she's processing both this act of generosity as well as this backhanded, uh, unintentional insult, ultimately,

[00:28:34] Amit: right? Or act of ego? Absolutely. Act of ego. I don't think it's an unintentional insult, but an act of ego. It kind

[00:28:39] Michael: of is. It's a little bit of a F you money move, but yes.

[00:28:42] Yes.

[00:28:43] Amit: Right, but I don't know. This guy is purposely anonymous. I think he is charitable. However, he did have video cameras on with his face blurred out, and he did say that quote. Pissed me off to see that clip. Kiss

[00:28:54] Michael: Milkovich is actually for the billionaire, but, uh,

[00:28:58] Amit: It is. It is for the billionaire. It's like, how did you choose those words?

[00:29:01] Because he even read it from a note card. I'm like, where is your publicist? Or in Australia, do they just, like, speak differently? Like, when they say a thousand times greater, they actually mean a thousand times lesser. It's like the whole, the whole water swirling thing.

[00:29:15] Michael: Right, right. The Coriolis effect in the toilet.

[00:29:18] Which isn't real.

[00:29:18] Amit: I don't know, but yes. That is why Malkovich is being present in this act of charity, which had to be wrapped around an act of

[00:29:27] Michael: ego. That's a really good one. All right. Instead of going through all the categories we usually go through, we're just going to choose a couple. We're going to start with going to net worth, which neither of us have looked up yet.

[00:29:40] Amit: This was our agreement. We're doing a double blind here. Okay.

[00:29:43] Michael: Do you have it on a piece of paper? Yeah. 25 million is what AMET has. I was going 100 million. Whoa! Okay. I, I, I, I think to have a research center I also think that, like, there's some real rich gal stuff around Olivia Newton John, plus some real, like, business interests that come into play, so I was wondering if we get to a hundred million with her.

[00:30:06] Amit: Okay, I'm really liking the

[00:30:07] Michael: situation here. You're probably right. You have such a better read on this than I do. Olivia Newton John's net worth is 60 million. That we pretty much split.

[00:30:18] Amit: Yeah. Perfectly down the middle.

[00:30:20] Michael: Okay. Sixty

[00:30:21] Amit: million. A lot for. A lot. For a 70s, 80s star still. Correct.

[00:30:25] Michael: Yes. And I love that number.

[00:30:28] If it had been as low as 25 million, I would have said something's wrong here. Yes. Um. A hundred million did seem a little bit extreme and outrageous because really she wasn't creating pop hits after the mid 80s. Yeah. But there was a, like, the scenes of her house in Santa Barbara, the fact that she's got a research center named after her, the husband who's got business interests in the Amazon, like, there's some, like, Rich gal stuff

[00:30:58] Amit: that I was detecting.

[00:30:59] I don't like that word, rich gal, because she was an entrepreneur. Like, she was a badass entrepreneur, actually. So, in the 80s, like, after, after this whole Let's Get Physical thing, she had a skincare line. Yeah. She started opening wellness resorts in Australia. Gaia. Yeah. She had partnerships with Hallmark, with Walgreens, like, if she was Taylor before Taylor, she was Gwyneth before Gwyneth.

[00:31:21] Which is why I was going for

[00:31:23] Michael: a hundred million. Okay, so when I say rich gal, I don't mean to be so insulting around that. It just seemed like there was some drive to continue to bring in money.

[00:31:32] Amit: I took it the Paul Simon route, like, Rich girl, she's got diamonds on the soles of

[00:31:36] Michael: her shoes. Well, there's also, I mean, she does sort of reek of privilege in some ways, to me.

[00:31:41] Why is that privileged? Uh, would Olivia Newton John be as successful? If she wasn't

[00:31:49] Amit: very, very pretty.

[00:31:51] Michael: Okay, so that's privilege. Yeah. Yeah, so it's privilege. That's success on planet Earth. Yes! I'm not saying it's not. I'm not saying it's not. I'm not saying there's a problem with that. But you asked why is that privilege.

[00:32:02] Okay. That's what privilege looks like. Privilege sometimes looks like luck, genetic luck. Yeah. And

[00:32:07] Amit: that's what she's got. Okay, I'm, that's fine with that. I'm, I'm okay with that. Yeah. All right. It's true. It's, it's, I think it, it goes back to the, uh, Way, way, way, way, way, way back.

[00:32:17] Michael: I completely agree. Like, we've been doing this as a social species since cave times.

[00:32:22] Okay. I'm, I'm, I'm good with it now. This is a pretty good segue into the next category we've decided to do. Man in the mirror. How do we think she felt about her own reflection when she saw it in the mirror? There's a reason I want her to do this one. And it relates to what we were just talking about.

[00:32:38] Extremely attractive woman. Like, ten out of ten.

[00:32:41] Amit: Right? Um, bombshell. Even into her seventies. Correct.

[00:32:44] Michael: You know, this has come up before on the show. There's net worth and then there's self worth. And I really wonder, like, I do think that, that when you are as attractive as she is, that you can really feel like you have to work double overtime to connect with other people.

[00:33:03] And to feel like At one with yourself. Yeah. I also think that, I mean, she was a cancer survivor and then battling cancer for the better part of her, the second half of her life, right? I wonder a little bit how that plays out in the man in the mirror reflection. You have how you look and what the mirror shows you.

[00:33:28] The other piece of this is that, you know, I do think that she, like, because this is the way the entertainment industry works and this is the nature of celebrity, She embodied a certain kind of objective stereotype.

[00:33:42] Amit: I wonder if that sucks. I think

[00:33:44] Michael: you are grateful for it because it creates opportunities, and people put you on stage and put you on album covers, and let you sing songs that Bob Dylan wrote or somebody else wrote, and then you get to star in a movie with John Travolta and look great.

[00:33:56] I just, I wonder about her relationship with her own reflection. I see, especially the late in life, trips to Ayahuasca and doubling down on environmental causes, I see a real yearning for connection that I relate to, I admire, I love. But I also feel like it's perhaps born out of a certain disconnection she feels from her own inner soul, or her own, and what the mirror does and does not reveal.

[00:34:22] So I mostly wanted to do this category because I

[00:34:24] Amit: have questions on it. But what do you think? Do you have a hypothesis? We don't leave this category without a yes or a no.

[00:34:32] Michael: It's totally 50 50 for me. I mean, I'll make a decision. And it's probably going to be a cop out because I'm likely to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[00:34:41] There's a world in which she just goes and lives on an island and tries to beat cancer without being in the public limelight, you know, doesn't try to champion others. I think that there is an effort to bring Fourth, an inner beauty that moves beyond the outer beauty. But I don't think it's simple because I do think that there's probably a conflicted relationship that we all have, but I think that it could potentially be amplified when you are this attractive.

[00:35:09] Amit: Yeah. So straight 50 50.

[00:35:12] Michael: I, well straight 50 50, but I'll give it 50.5% and yes. And

[00:35:16] Amit: I'll say she liked it. Yeah, she liked it. She liked it. Yeah. So I think you've brought up a. Great conundrum, I think, which is the balance between feeling too privileged and Gratitude for what you have. I feel

[00:35:28] Michael: for so many people.

[00:35:29] It's very hard, isn't it? When you're in a position as we are that We're very lucky people. I'm very grateful for that and I don't lose track of that either, but I I tell people try and find something that you can be passionate about. Try and find something that you can focus on that you feel good about.

[00:35:47] And for me, it's nature and that doesn't cost anything. Try and do something for somebody else. And I think it's when you try and help someone else, it brings you

[00:35:56] Amit: pleasure. Whether you're born into wealth, whether you are blessed with good looks or athletic ability or a certain figure that enables you to do something, or

[00:36:06] Michael: even a mysterious inner charisma that people

[00:36:09] Amit: respond to, or inherent intelligence.

[00:36:11] Yeah, that happens too. People are born and they can't even trace it genetically back that people are born geniuses. Yeah, right. All this happens, and there is a certain point in our lives that we get to in emotional maturity that. You want to create your own destiny based on your own self. Yeah. And you want to discount anything that seems to be what we were born into, right?

[00:36:37] But it's a really, really, really hard thing to separate. Yes. And say that this is me, and this is the true me, and this is why I deserve it. Because you cannot remove the fact that, yes, my good looks did enable this, or the fact that I was born a bitch. above this income line did enable it. It's a near impossibility.

[00:36:55] I

[00:36:55] Michael: think it creates questions of purpose and meaning and self worth, right? And even security. Like, what has to be true inside so that I am okay? Because, yes, I'm very good looking, but that's not doing it all. You know what I

[00:37:07] Amit: mean? Yeah, correct. It's a big problem with anybody that, uh, is on any sort of spiritual journey.

[00:37:13] Yes. Eventually, at some point, you go up Maslow's hierarchy, and you have to have self esteem. Really, and, and you have to master that in order to get up and really connect with the divine or whatever you think you want to do or whatever you, whatever your version of enlightenment or perfection is. And self actualization is, yes.

[00:37:33] Yes, self actualization was the word I was looking for. But to do that you have to understand, okay, what am I responsible for and what, uh, what was just given to me. Right, exactly, exactly. It's

[00:37:42] Michael: a tough, tough thing and, and I think it gets to your question about believability. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm basically raising that question again

[00:37:48] Amit: here, and thank you for saying that because that's my answer.

[00:37:51] My answer is yes. So you have to be a person of gratitude. Yeah. It doesn't have to be overt gratitude. It doesn't have to be the type of triple exclamation point gratitude that Olivia Newton John has. But it needs to be silent gratitude. And you need to be damn thankful that you were born into this, either your looks or your money or whatever.

[00:38:11] And I think that is the only way that you can look yourself in the mirror and say, Dear God, I am lucky. So effing lucky, and then you can sort of take credit for your own individual accomplishments and what you did separately, or at least believe in yourself and your soul and your spirit. Yeah. So only because you highlighted her gratitude am I going to say yes.

[00:38:37] She likes her reflection in the mirror.

[00:38:38] Michael: Because, and this has come up before on the show, I do think it's possible to be this attractive and not like your looks. Like, right, I think Burt

[00:38:45] Amit: Reynolds fell into that category. Yeah, totally.

[00:38:47] Michael: You know. All right, we're gonna move right into our second to last category, cocktail, coffee, or cannabis.

[00:38:54] This is where we ask Which one would we most want to do with our dead celebrity? This may be a question of what drug sounds like the most fun to partake with this person, or another philosophy is that a particular kind of drug might allow access to a part of them we are

[00:39:06] Amit: most curious about. Can you go first?

[00:39:09] Michael: My answer's not all that interesting. I went cocktail, because I do still see layers of superficiality on Olivia Noon and John. Really where I most saw it was in the interviews, she would answer a question and then smile at you. And the fact that there was a smile after every single answer, there was something about that that's like, I'm smiling at you so that, like, things are okay but I'm done and I've sort of, like, drawn my boundaries in this conference.

[00:39:34] She was very conscious of every interview she ever gave. And that makes sense, given who she was. I'd really like to, uh, have drinks with her, get her laughing a little bit, loosened up, and then really, like, ask questions that she's never been asked. Like, you know, what does it really feel like inside? Like, really, really, really.

[00:39:51] Because getting the kinds of cancer diagnosis she got, she stood right there at that Abyss for like a long time and worked really hard to find gratitude and meaning and to give it back and to Like, you know stay relevant. I mean, I I see so much like on the exterior that seems to say You've arrived you learned something that I think could be valuable to the rest of us and i'd like to learn a little bit more here But we only ever get so much of it, and I think it's because, honestly, her beauty is distracting.

[00:40:24] It's a little hard to get at the truth of who she is because she's so attractive. Yeah.

[00:40:29] Amit: What do you got? So I think I'm going cannabis. It should be known that she grows her own, or her husband grew their own, on their property in California. I'm torn, actually, I think, between just the hang and the access.

[00:40:42] And maybe I'm going to talk myself into this just by giving me a sexplanation. Okay. So we Do you want to watch

[00:40:47] Michael: Xanadu with her? Xanadu! Did

[00:40:54] you watch that movie? I watched clips of it, yes. This thing

[00:40:58] Amit: is ridiculous. Oh yeah, but if you go to the awards for Xanadu Yeah. This is where it's fabulous. Okay. The Golden Raspberry Awards. Worst picture, worst director, worst actor, worst actress, worst screenplay, worst original song. It wasn't ever nominated for a Grammy for her singing Magic.

[00:41:18] But everything else, it was just nominated in all these mock awards as the worst

[00:41:21] Michael: movie of the year. Yeah, she did Grease and Xanadu, and then was like, I think I'm done with movies. Yes. Alright, so. That was worthwhile. Cannabis.

[00:41:31] Amit: Yes. Cannabis and, and it's for the hanging. That's the reason is this, is that we've, we've seen essentially three Olivia's, right?

[00:41:36] We saw this innocent, what I'm gonna call schoolgirl Olivia. That's, that's insulting and not appropriate. Yeah. And girl next

[00:41:42] Michael: door though, there's some

[00:41:42] Amit: truth, girl, I like girl next door better, which is the, um, which is her career pre grease and it's her character in the first three quarters. of Greece. Yes.

[00:41:51] Then we see this, uh, let's get physical. Yes. Olivia. And then we see the spiritual. Yes. Olivia. Yeah. So she's had three personalities and three lives, which I think a lot of us kind of go through, not necessarily in that order. I think it's rare that you go spiritual and one of the others is after that.

[00:42:11] Yeah. But I just kind of want to hear her. Talk about the three Olivias because I think it's a very unique thing that you don't get people who have had such distinct phases and actually get them to talk about it. And this is not like a probing Q& A. This is why I selected Cannabis. You know, this is just any music playing but her own.

[00:42:36] Yeah. To just talk about the reflection of evolving your character through life. Yeah. You know, I thought this was right, and I thought this is what I wanted, and this is how I express myself. Then I thought this, and this is where I am now. And she's a pretty articulate woman, even though she may smile at the end of every sentence, and I think she could tell a pretty good autobiographical story that is very, very different one on one in a certain session than what is given in an interview or in an autobiography.

[00:43:06] So I want to hear it. I want to hear the story of Three Olivias.

[00:43:09] Michael: Perfect segue into our final category, the Vanderbeek, named after James Vanderbeek, who famously said in Varsity Blues, I don't want your life. Based on everything we've talked about, the big question is, do you want this life? I think that what you were speaking to a minute ago, I heard a little bit of Upward Staircase in there.

[00:43:28] Mm hmm. There's a lot to unpack here, actually. There always is. Amit, do you want this life?

[00:43:33] Amit: Let's start there. So, here's a couple of the cases against that haven't necessarily been brought up. Yeah. We talked about cancer, but this was three times cancer. Yes. Right? And that sucks to think you beat it and it comes back.

[00:43:45] That's rough. Yeah. That's rough. Normal, but yes. Normal, but yes. She's a heroine in our eyes, but that sucks. Yeah. That really, really, really sucks. You know, this boyfriend who was lost At sea. Yeah. In 2005. We kind of laugh it off, but this was a nine year relationship that a guy disappeared on a boat and they never found his body.

[00:44:05] It's rumored he might still be, like, hiding in Mexico right now. The tabloids

[00:44:09] Michael: went wild with it and she, like, had to, like, look past that for the better part of a decade. Correct.

[00:44:15] Amit: Yeah. She lost her father on the same day she received her cancer diagnosis. Yes. She

[00:44:20] Michael: also lost her sister around the time she received her second cancer diagnosis.

[00:44:24] I mean, it was, there's a lot of death and pain

[00:44:26] Amit: in her family. She's the youngest. And the synchronicities seem to suck, like it just seems to get bombarded. Yeah, it was going to be like a shitty year. Yeah, it was, it was not always easy. Yeah. Where I'm ultimately going to land at is, is I'm going to go way back to that question I asked you, is that, is her positivity believable?

[00:44:40] Yeah. Because I think the arc of the life, what you said, uh, a second ago in the upward staircase, I always loved that. Mm hmm. Right, I always love, uh, a

[00:44:49] Michael: spiritual maturity. Yes, me too. And it's probably the single thing I care about the most if I had to distill it down to any one thing I'm looking

[00:44:57] Amit: for. Yes, without losing yourself.

[00:44:59] Correct. Without ending your life in robes in Nepal. Right. You know, still living on a horse ranch in California.

[00:45:05] Michael: Are you trying to criticize Leonard Cohen? He got out of there.

[00:45:08] Amit: No, I'm talking myself out of it. I see. That's why I'm doing it. Got it. Okay. Um, but she did it and she evolved and I believe her happiness, and I believe her positivity, and the impact she had in, in pop culture, but even youth culture.

[00:45:24] Like, Grease is, I still think, probably one of the most popular high school musicals out there. Everyone wants to play Sandy. Totally. I remember, like, seeing all the Sandys through my life. Like, this is a significant life that's impactful well beyond her generation. It was pretty damn fun for a while. She did a lot of interesting things, traveled to a lot of interesting places.

[00:45:45] You gotta remember, she was raised in Australia and then got her sort of start after winning a contest that sent her to Britain and then she made her musical career in the United States. And everyone's like, this Australian can't be a country artist. Yeah, George

[00:45:58] Michael: Jones and Tammy Wynette started an organization to keep her out.

[00:46:01] Yeah, and

[00:46:02] Amit: then Dolly Parton fought for her. I mean, there's like, there's fascinating backstories there. Yeah. And She's grateful. She had riches, both literally and spiritually. Uh, she was cut short. 73 is young. Yeah. But it's pretty meaningful. So, yes, I want your life to

[00:46:22] Michael: be known, John. All right. I think the upward staircase, the commitment to a spiritual life, the travel, the impact, the legacy, the relationships seem really good.

[00:46:34] I do think that the case against you, Meg, in terms of Living with a cancer diagnosis, you know, sucks. Obviously it sucks, but I don't know, I, I, the older I get, the more people I've met who've had it, who have dealt with it, and I think that you do develop a relationship with the disease where it rules your life and it doesn't rule your life.

[00:46:55] Like, it doesn't rule your every experience, even if it hangs over in a way that existential dread always hangs over, right? It's just a little bit more Uh, apparent pointed in your face, I, I, I'm inclined, pretty inclined to go, yes, here as well. I don't see a strong case against. You basically said it all at the end of the day, the big things I am looking for in any life is about.

[00:47:22] gratitude, sense of self worth, spirituality, contribution to the stream of life via positivity, and an interesting story and an interesting journey. You know, I think she was gifted with a lot genetically, and I think she played the hand really well. Well done, Olivia Newton John. I wish you'd chosen some different songs to sing, but otherwise, really, really well done.

[00:47:47] So I'm also a yes. And I can't see any reason why not.

[00:47:52] Amit, you are Olivia Newton John. You've passed away. And standing before you is St. Peter, the Unitarian proxy for the afterlife. You have an opportunity to make your pitch. What was your contribution to the stream of life?

[00:48:13] Amit: St. Peter, in the first line of my obituary, they said, uh, I recast myself in miniature in Greece.

[00:48:20] What they're referring to is the two Sandys. The girl next door, Sandy at the beginning. And the leather clad spandex wearing Sandy at the end and a little bit, that was a story of my life. They talked on the show about three Olivia's, and I lived all three of those. Olivia's. I own all three of those Olivia's.

[00:48:40] I love all three of those Olivia's. So what I left to the stream of life is that you can be. Anybody you want to be, you can change, you can evolve, you can choose your personality, your identity, your preferences, your goals. Don't let anybody else stand in the way of that. Own yourself. I wrote a song, the biggest song of the 1980s.

[00:49:07] Called Let's Get Physical. So St. Peter, let's get mystical. Let me in.

[00:49:19] Michael: Famous and Gravy listeners, we want to hear from you. We need people to participate in our opening quiz where we reveal the dead celebrity. You can email us at hello at famousandgravy. com If you're enjoying our show, please tell your friends. You can find us on TwitterX, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Threads. Our handle is at Famous and Gravy.

[00:49:40] We also have a newsletter you can sign up for on our website, famousandgravy. com. Famous and Gravy was created by Amit Kapoor and me, Michael Osborne. This episode was produced by Jacob Weiss. Original theme music by Kevin Strang. Thank you so much for listening. See you next time.