062 Lord of Horror transcript (Christopher Lee)

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[00:00:00] Amit: This is Famous Gravy, life lessons from dead celebrities. Now for the opening quiz to reveal today's dead celebrity.

[00:00:07] Michael: This person died 2015, age 93. His breakthrough film was Terrence Fisher's British horror movie, The Curse of Frankenstein.

[00:00:17] Friend: Alfred Hitchcock.

[00:00:18] Michael: Not Alfred Hitchcock. He could be philosophical about having been typecast. Of his roughly 250 movie and television roles, only 15 or so had been in horror films.

[00:00:32] Friend: It's the guy from the Michael Jackson video.

[00:00:36] Michael: It's not Vincent Price, but very in the right direction. Even in his 70s and 80s, he could play evil incarnate and strike fear into the hearts of moviegoers. He played the treacherous, lightsaber wielding villain Count Dooku in the Star Wars installments.

[00:00:54] Friend: Oh my god, I can't think. I mean, I know exactly who it is, I've seen the character, but I can't think of who, um...

[00:01:01] Michael: He was a physically towering British movie actor who lent to films his distinguished good looks, Shakespearean voice, and aristocratic presence. He was the dangerously charismatic wizard Saruman in the Lord of the Rings installment.

[00:01:17] Friend: Oh my gosh, Christopher Lee. Today's dead celebrity is Christopher Lee.

[00:01:23] Archival: People think I'm a bit aloof. People think that I'm, you know, slightly forbidding and so on. Part of that's my height and perhaps some of the parts I've played. That such is the power of the screen. But retirement for Christopher Lee is simply not something he contemplates ever.

[00:01:38] No. I could listen to music forever. I could read forever. And I could, if the weather was good, plague off forever. But that's not what you'd call a particularly productive life. And eventually, in, I suppose, a creative sense, one would become terribly frustrated at not... Doing something which really meant something instead of just enjoying yourself.

[00:02:00] And so, retirement. How many actors have you ever heard of who've retired? Very, very few. I can't think of any. And I don't want to be one of them.

[00:02:15] Michael: Welcome to Famous Gravy. I'm Michael Osborne.

[00:02:17] Morgan: I'm Morgan Honaker.

[00:02:19] Michael: And on this show, we are looking for ways to make life better. We believe that the best years might lie ahead. So, on each episode, we choose a celebrity who died in the last ten years, and we go through a series of categories reviewing their lives to extract wisdom and inspiration.

[00:02:34] At the end, we answer the question, would I want that life? Today, Christopher Lee died 2015, age 93. So you are not Amit Kapoor.

[00:02:46] Morgan: I'm not, surprisingly. Okay.

[00:02:48] Michael: This is our second annual Halloween special. I think it's becoming a little bit of a famous and gravy tradition where we're inviting a guest to come on.

[00:02:56] To give a little backstory on Morgan. So Morgan is a very talented audio producer and engineer. You were involved very early on with Famous Gravy. You and I have worked together on a bunch of projects. Did I get all that right? Is that a pretty good summation of you?

[00:03:10] Morgan: Yeah, I'd say also re recording mixer slash audio generalist.

[00:03:14] Yeah, audio generalist. I like that. That's how I tend to describe myself because I work in a bunch of different industries just doing. A bunch of different things.

[00:03:23] Michael: Podcast, film, video game, anything that involves sound.

[00:03:27] Morgan: Pretty much. Yeah. Except for music, which is very confusing for everyone who isn't me.

[00:03:32] Michael: Early on, you were like, you guys should really do Christopher Lee at some point. And uh, finally I decided to drag you into studio and let's do this. Why Christopher Lee? Like, I think we're going to get into how interesting his life is. Yeah. But like, I don't know, tell me a little bit more about your relationship with Christopher Lee.

[00:03:48] Morgan: Christopher Lee is one of those people. I think that everyone has these kind of people growing up who in our house occupied this almost like patron saint status. Yeah. Solely because of for him, just the breadth and depth of his career. So both of my parents are very like genre people. So like my dad grew up loving Star Trek and Star Wars.

[00:04:12] My mom. Her favorite book series have always been Lord of the Rings. Um, she's also an English professor, so Tolkien's someone that she's very interested in. Yeah. And so Christopher Lee is like this... weird amalgam of everyone's who's like interested in genre at some point it comes back to Christopher Lee, you know, because he's had such a career in horror.

[00:04:36] He's had a career in like spy stuff, you know, Mascara Manga with James Bond. And then if you're into fantasy, he's in Lord of the Rings, and also some other Tim Burton stuff, which kind of occupies that middle ground of horror and fantasy. Yeah. And so if like, I don't really remember a time not knowing who he was.

[00:04:54] Especially because I was like five years old when the Lord of the Rings, Peter Jackson films came out and that was sort of like my first experience directly with him. Yeah. But for us, he was just like someone who I always knew his name. I think my parents always kind of respected his, like, dedication to genre, you know?

[00:05:16] Michael: Oh, interesting. Okay, save that. I've got that in a future category. Alright, well let's get to it. Category one, grading the first line of their obituary. Christopher Lee, the physically towering British movie star who lent his distinguished good looks, Shakespearean voice, and aristocratic presence to a gallery of villains from seductive Count Dracula to a dreaded wizard in The Lord of the Rings.

[00:05:43] Died on Sunday in London. He was 93. Whoo. Mm hmm. What jumped out of

[00:05:48] Morgan: you in this? I really like, and I think this was true also of Leonard Nimoy. I think Leonard Nimoy and Christopher Lee kind of have a similar countenance. They both have these really sonorous voices, these really deep voices. Everyone focuses on that, which they should.

[00:06:01] It's impressive and it's Yeah. 10 out

[00:06:04] Michael: of 10 voice in a way.

[00:06:05] Morgan: Oh, yeah. 100%. Like, I could, I could listen to Christopher Lee talk all day. Yeah. I could read the phone book. Yeah. And it would be so interesting. And then also, like Leonard Nimoy, his presence, his, like, physicality is very specific and very remember, like, rememberable.

[00:06:20] Mm hmm. Rememberable. Genre specific,

[00:06:22] Michael: actually. Yes. I

[00:06:23] Morgan: think, yeah. Exactly. And I think that that's, Emphasis on their physicality and their voice is a good thing because it is distinctive.

[00:06:29] Michael: So you're drawing attention to the phrase physically towering

[00:06:32] Morgan: here? So I actually like the aristocrat angle. Yeah!

[00:06:36] Because that's something that I think gets lost a lot in discussions of both of these people, and particularly Christopher Lee, is that they talk a lot about how he looks and how he sounds, which they should. But also, I think that his character always comes through in every role, and that's something that is part of the reason why I like him, is he does have this sort of gentle, aristocracy about him.

[00:06:59] That's really interesting. I mean it's a

[00:07:00] Michael: major asset for him as an actor, that sort of aristocratic vibe. It allows him to jump into these different genres of fantasy and horror. It also ties into, I'm sure you saw this in the research, that he's a direct descendant of Charlemagne.

[00:07:13] Morgan: Yes, I did see that his maternal line did get a specific Like, authority from the Roman Empire to actually say

[00:07:22] Michael: that.

[00:07:23] There's other touches with royalty that we'll get into in a little bit. But okay, so, distinguished good looks. Yeah. I need your help on this. I think he's a handsome man, and he's described it, but like, distinguished good looks? That's accurate,

[00:07:35] Morgan: right? I think that's true. Especially because distinguished good looks, to me, is more of like...

[00:07:41] Noble good looks, like the specific aristocrat good looks, which are not necessarily traditional good looks.

[00:07:47] Michael: Right, so those words are kind of talking to each other in a way. Distinguished good looks and aristocratic presence. I'll tell you something I like here. Gallery of villains. I like the word gallery.

[00:07:57] gallery because it sort of like does make you feel like you're in a, you know, wax museum or something, which is if you go through his IMDB, that's what it feels like. Totally. You know, you're going through.

[00:08:07] Morgan: He's touched so

[00:08:08] Michael: many franchises. Right. And you're going through like different aisles of the movie rental store or whatever.

[00:08:13] I also, and I'll say this, and this is something I'm really curious to get your take on, seductive count Dracula to dreaded wizard and the Lord of the Rings. I feel like those are the two. Movie properties that you might know him from one of the things you have to do with the first line of the obituary is say You know, you might remember this person from I think you know, he played Dracula what like ten times

[00:08:35] Morgan: or something?

[00:08:35] Yeah, Christopher Lee. He played Dracula ten times

[00:08:38] Michael: Okay So you might know him as Count Dracula and you might know him as from the dreaded wizard in Lord of the Rings That does feel like the two things to point to I mean, yeah, what else is on the table

[00:08:49] Morgan: there? For me, I, I do tend to think Wicker Man, um, because it has, like, achieved this cult status.

[00:08:57] Michael: Okay, one more thing I want to talk about. Shakespearean voice I think is accurate, but it usually means somebody who you might know from Shakespeare works, or like, you would think that. I don't know if that's necessarily a criticism, but, you know, we can't use the word sonorous. Oh, I got a word. What would you say instead of

[00:09:16] Morgan: Shakespearean?

[00:09:17] Operatic. Oh.

[00:09:19] Michael: Come on. Oh, that's a really good rewrite. Yeah. A hundred percent.

[00:09:22] Morgan: He's got opera training. He's got opera singers in his family. And I do. I think that Shakespearean does, you might use Shakespearean for, you know, Winnie and McKellen dies, but like, for

[00:09:32] Michael: Christopher Lee, or even, even for that matter, um, Patrick Stewart.

[00:09:36] Sure. I don't know of any Christopher Lee Shakespeare. Yeah. I mean, he probably did. He did friggin 250

[00:09:43] Morgan: movies. I'm not actually sure, cinematically. He may have theatrically, like, he might have done some stage work.

[00:09:49] Did

[00:09:49] Michael: this man have time to be on stage? It doesn't seem like it. He

[00:09:52] Morgan: seems very yeah, it seems like a lot of his, like, early, early, like, kid training was on stage.

[00:09:58] But he does seem more of a true, like, cinema actor. Totally. Than, like, an actor, you know. Actor. So,

[00:10:05] Michael: yeah. Okay. I think I have my score. Would you like me to go first or you wanna go first? Yeah, you go first. You go first. Okay. I'm giving it a nine out. 10. I almost went 10 out. 10. I think operatic is a much better word than Shakespearean.

[00:10:17] And it's, it's good. I, I'm dinging at 0.6 of a point, which rounds down to nine. Okay. . Um, so, uh, 'cause this came close to a 10 out 10 for me. I, I guess the other thing is I would've liked to have seen the name Soman. Maybe that's not just the dreaded wizard, but Yeah. It's helpful to actually reference this specific

[00:10:35] Morgan: character there.

[00:10:36] I agree, which is, for me, like 8 10, okay. But yeah, I also, I think that Saruman is like a very recognizable character name,

[00:10:45] Michael: you know. Yeah, totally. Now, I, I, and I think that's fair. I mean, Lord of the Rings is a behemoth, right? Oh, huge.

[00:10:50] Morgan: Yeah. Massively popular.

[00:10:52] Michael: Okay, let's move on. Category two, five things I love about you.

[00:10:55] Here, Morgan and I are going to come up with five reasons why we love Christopher Lee, why we want to be talking about him in the first place. You kick us

[00:11:03] Morgan: off. You've got a lot. I actually wrote down six. I wanted to have an extra just in case. Well, and

[00:11:08] Michael: I've got five or six here too. I think there's going to be

[00:11:11] Morgan: overlap.

[00:11:12] Christopher Lee was not only an actor, he also sang. In a variety of metal bands. I had this

[00:11:17] Michael: too. Musical taste.

[00:11:36] So are you a

[00:11:36] Morgan: heavy metal? I am. I actually just got back from Louisville where I was at a metal festival for five days. Is that right?

[00:11:44] Michael: So and you're wearing a Slayer shirt. I am. I kind of like, I didn't want to make assumptions. I wore the best I could do is find a black shirt for a Halloween special. Um, but, uh, but yes, okay.

[00:11:55] But it's not just heavy metal. Yeah. In fact, why don't you say more about his musical

[00:11:59] Morgan: journey? Yeah. So Christopher Lee, actually one thing that I'm sure we'll talk about more. The the amount of people this man is related to is insane, but one of his like first forays into music is opera and partially he has naturally good voice, but also his great grandmother was Marie Carandini, who is from like an Italian noble family.

[00:12:23] But Marie was known specifically for being one of the the best opera singers in Europe at the time. And so you can hear that in the way that he talks, you can even just hear it in his breath control. Like, you know, he always speaks right down to the bottom of his stomach, the full lungs coming out.

[00:12:38] Totally. And so starting as more like of an opera focus, and then He started in a metal band called Charlemagne. Yes. As we talked about. 'cause he's our descendant of Charlemagne. Yeah. And made some Christmas albums. . .

[00:12:55] Michael: Yeah. What is, there's like Jingle

[00:12:57] Morgan: Hell or something. Jingle Hell was the single .

[00:12:59] Michael: Um,

[00:13:07] which I saw a fun fact about that he's the oldest person Yes. To have gotten on the billboard top 100. Yes.

[00:13:13] Morgan: Because of Jingle Hill? And it was high. It was 18 on the, on the, on, I think it was on the, yeah, the Hot 100. It also

[00:13:19] Michael: sounds like he was in on heavy metal from the dawn of heavy metal. Like from Sabbath, right?

[00:13:24] So Tony Iommi is, was part of Black Sabbath in the early days. Christopher Lee called him the father of heavy metal, but Tony Iommi said actually You are the one who inspired us. Like, we were all watching Dracula movies, and you are what led us. I think this came out in some, like, heavy metal induction ceremony or something.

[00:13:45] But anyway, and he's like, in it, you know, up until his dying day. Yeah. Okay. Here's what I wanted to ask you. Are you an opera fan too?

[00:13:55] Morgan: I actually did have a classical music radio show for a while when I was at UT Austin at the student station KBRX. Yeah. But I, opera is one of those things I want to like it and there are some I love.

[00:14:10] Yeah. I love Don Giovanni. That's one of my favorite operas. Okay. But I'm not, I'm not a huge opera person. I,

[00:14:16] Michael: what, where this is coming from, so I'm not really either. I, I didn't think I was in on opera. And then I went to the Santa Fe Opera, uh, several years ago, which is this unbelievable outdoor setting.

[00:14:28] And it's epic. And like the scene is really fun. Whether or not I'm into the music is sort of a different question, but like. I am wondering what the Venn diagram is between heavy metal fans and opera fans.

[00:14:39] Morgan: Can you speak to that? I actually can. I think about this all the time. And this is, I'm putting my soapbox on the table.

[00:14:45] All right. So I think it's more, I think it's broader. I think it's heavy metal and classical have a lot in common, actually. For one, the polyphony and the syncopation and a lot of the really like intricate musicality that you hear in classical music and in opera, you will also hear in metal. Yeah. The way that music is arranged, just the way that instruments work together is very similar.

[00:15:09] And so if you talk to a lot of metalheads, a lot of them do really enjoy classical music as well. I do in a lot of ways think that The people who love classical music, who don't give metal a chance, would actually really like metal, and vice versa. I'll talk to my mom. Yeah, it's very, they're very, very similar genres.

[00:15:32] Yeah,

[00:15:32] Michael: and I like the combination of them in Christopher Lee. Yes. To your thing number one. Amazing. Like, he is somebody who... Makes total sense. Makes sense, totally makes sense. It works. I think there's even some story about some great opera singer from Scandinavia somewhere like encouraging him.

[00:15:48] Morgan: I read that as well.

[00:15:49] Yeah. He had to train. But I actually saw Christopher Lee talking about how like, he's kind of glad he didn't pursue a career as an opera singer because he would have lost his voice. Right. And instead he got to make metal Christmas albums when That's really old. Jingle Hell. That's so

[00:16:02] Michael: good. Jingle Hell is great.

[00:16:04] I love that you led with that. That was my, and I, you know, and overall in terms of desirability, I like people who can appreciate what looked like radically different genres of music, right? I mean, that, that is, there's an open mindedness there that I think is just cool as hell. A

[00:16:18] Morgan: socialite Brit, they're so buttoned down and Christopher Lee is like, you know what?

[00:16:21] You know what? Metal's

[00:16:22] Michael: pretty cool. I'm into Sabbath and I'm into whatever opera is coming out. Yeah. Um. All right, let me take number two. Uh, this one's gonna be pretty short, I think. Okay. And maybe a little trite and a little corny, but this one matters to me. Determination. It's something that comes up over and over.

[00:16:37] He gets to a point in his career where he does not want to be typecast. And you hear him say this, like, I was going to go to Hollywood and prove that I'm not just, you know, a horror villain. And he winds up... Having a reasonably successful and increasingly more successful, like a very successful late in life career in Hollywood, but the way he sort of talks about, like, I am determined, I do have something to prove.

[00:17:00] Yeah. I don't know. You hear people say all the time these days, man, I don't have anything to prove. But I'm not sure I believe him. I kind of like that he is forthcoming with his ambition, and that he's also trying to, I don't know, make a point about who he is and what he can do. So it sounds like kind of a, I don't know, simple thing to point towards, but I admire his determination.

[00:17:21] Morgan: Something about Christopher Lee I've always loved is that he always comes across as incredibly genuine, like you're saying. Yes. And very aware and humble about the things that he has done and wants to do. Mm hmm. Like it's not, it's not him saying, I want to be a great actor because I want to be great.

[00:17:40] It's more him being like, I want to be a great actor because this is what I want to do. Yeah, I want to try things. Yeah. Exactly. And so I agree. And being able to make that move from working for Hammer in the UK, coming to the US, and having any kind of successful career is so difficult. And I mean,

[00:17:57] Michael: the directors he works with, when you add it all up, it's a pretty unbelievable list.

[00:18:02] Spielberg, Scorsese, Tim Burton, Peter Jackson. I mean, you know, on and on. George Lucas. George Lucas. I mean, you know, it's like the greats, right? By some metrics anyway. So, so that's my thing number two. Uh, what do you got for number three?

[00:18:16] Morgan: Number three is somewhat personal to me, I think. Like, as someone who works in the film industry, this is something I've always appreciated, that Christopher Lee always thinks about his crew, not just his fellow cast member, but there are several instances where in interviews you can see him directly, like, thanking and acknowledging the crew around him.

[00:18:37] Yeah. And I bring this up because, like, I have worked on Tons of movies and shows at this point, and that's very uncommon. To

[00:18:44] Michael: hear the, like, genuine recognition of the crew's contribution?

[00:18:48] Morgan: Totally. Yeah. It's, it tends to be focused on, let's talk about the director, the actors, and, like, maybe the writer and composer.

[00:18:55] The public facing people, in other words. Yeah, the ones who are more isolated, but like, when you think about, especially, TV shows, but also movies. There's hundreds of people working on these things. And it's, it's the cumulative work of all of those people that are making this happen. Yeah. And so one example in particular is actually with his career at Hammer.

[00:19:13] That's,

[00:19:13] Michael: yeah, I'm glad you mentioned this because I read this as well. Yeah. So

[00:19:17] Morgan: Christopher Lee, after the second Dracula movie, was planning to leave because the scripts were terrible. Yeah, and it had nothing to

[00:19:25] Michael: do with the original source material.

[00:19:26] Morgan: Exactly. And they don't. I've seen a lot of them. They're fun.

[00:19:29] There's one called Dracula 80, 1972, where Dracula comes to 1972 and fights Peter Cushing. Pretty good. It's really great, but it's not the source material. Right. This has nothing to do with Bram Strand. It is completely different. Yeah. But Christopher Lee was planning on leaving Hammer. And this was a dirty trick by the execs, but they basically were like, well, if you leave, we're going to have to let go a hundred people who work on these films.

[00:19:53] Yeah.

[00:19:54] Michael: We signed the deal with your name attached to it. And if you, are you going to let these people, you know, leave them now to dry? Exactly.

[00:20:00] Morgan: And he was like, that's a really good point. I won't do that. And did eight more movies.

[00:20:05] Michael: Am I going to be held responsible for putting 90 to a hundred people out of work, Actors, actresses, directors, writers, producers, technicians.

[00:20:15] How could I? So I did them, and that is the only reason

[00:20:19] Morgan: why. That relationship with Lee and that studio was very toxic in that specific way where they would hang the weight of a hundred people's livelihood over his head and just over and over just guilt trip him. And so even though I don't think that's necessarily true, like I think they probably would have found a replacement if Lee had left after.

[00:20:39] the second one. I do appreciate him thinking of the crew. And then also there's a clip of Christopher Lee, like thinking there must have been at least 400 people that worked on Lord of the Rings and just like actually acknowledging all of their effort. And that's especially rare from an actor. I think what

[00:20:57] Michael: you have achieved is sheer magic.

[00:21:01] All of you, all of you. And I think that is the operative word. All of. You, you are the greatest crew I've ever known. I love that. I mean, I love when anybody doesn't let their ego get too far in the way of like recognizing all the contributions to any kind of creative process, you know, in collaboration.

[00:21:26] That is desirable and awesome. I'm going to go number four, if I may. It really sounds like he chased down Nazis in North Africa during World War II. Um, like, it's hard to find out information about this, but like, I don't know how much you dug into his military career. It's a little bit mysterious. It is.

[00:21:44] He was going to be in the RAF as a fighter pilot, and for some reason his... It was an

[00:21:49] Morgan: optical nerve issue.

[00:21:52] Michael: So they wind up sending him to North Africa and he winds up working as an intelligence officer. And I mean, the way he talks about the horrors he saw during the war, I think he was, I mean, I think he was also in Europe and going into concentration camps when the allies were first making headway into Germany.

[00:22:09] I mean, it really sounds like he saw some shit. But it does sound like he actually was chasing down Nazis, which is badass. It is

[00:22:17] Morgan: very cool. At the very least, he was working with, uh, what is it? Krokas, to at least find them after the war, especially, and pull them in, interrogate them, bring them to justice.

[00:22:30] Yeah, which is. Very cool. I've, I've seen like two theories on this. One being that his missions were so classified that they're still like not declassified. Right. And the other being that he might have not lied about what he did, but not corrected people when they overstated what he did. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:22:50] I don't see that as being true and I'm not trying to, I like, I like that it

[00:22:55] Michael: might be true. It is, right. Cause

[00:22:57] Morgan: like as an actor. That's a great persona to have. You know?

[00:23:01] Michael: Like this guy might have done some shit that you don't know about, right? It makes him, it makes the air of mystery around him. Um. And

[00:23:09] Morgan: the one piece of evidence we do have is on Lord of the Rings, he, uh, there's, when Saruman dies in the third movie, there's this famous story that, um, you know, Saruman gets impaled, but he gets stabbed in the back first.

[00:23:21] Yeah. And Peter Jackson was like trying to direct him on the noise to make. I saw this, yes. And Christopher Lee was like. Peter, I've got it. I know. I know

[00:23:29] Michael: what it sounds like, to be stabbed in the back. Exactly.

[00:23:33] Morgan: So we do have that working for him. I'm going

[00:23:35] Michael: to just, I'm just going to leave it as is, leave it as is right there.

[00:23:38] All right. So my thing number four, chase down Nazis. Probably. Yes. All right. You got number

[00:23:42] Morgan: five? I have a few. I'm trying to decide. There are a lot of titans of horror around Christopher Lee's time. Yeah. Like a lot of, uh, huge, you know, Vincent Price. That's who I Karloff. You're right. Um, but one of my favorites has always been Peter Cushing.

[00:23:58] And Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing's friendship is just something so tender and beautiful. And I love watching either one of them talk about the other. I miss

[00:24:08] Michael: him. I miss him terribly now. I always will. Because I used to make him laugh a lot, and he used to make me laugh a lot. Right to the end of his life, I would ring him up and say certain things which I can't say now to anybody else.

[00:24:21] There isn't anybody left with whom I can share that particular kind of idiotic humor, if you like. But we loved it. And I, I loved him. So for people who don't know or don't have a mind's eye recognition of Peter Cushing. Yeah. I mean, the most famous is, I think, in Star Wars. Is Tarkin.

[00:24:36] Morgan: Yeah. Tarkin. Grand Moff Tarkin.

[00:24:39] Michael: He's the one who has Leia in captivity. The cheekbones. The cheekbones. The cheekbones. So that's Peter Cushing. Yes. And he and. Christopher Lee were dear

[00:24:47] Morgan: friends. They were very good friends. They started at Hammer together. Usually the way it would go is Christopher Lee would play the villain in a Hammer movie and Peter Cushing would play the sort of like Van Helsing, uh, like dark good guy character, you know.

[00:25:02] But they had a friendship basically from when they met until Peter Cushing died and then of course Christopher Lee recently. And just the way they would talk about each other. I just, I just, Um, they were clearly so close.

[00:25:15] Michael: There was something I saw where apparently they were both big fans of Looney Tunes.

[00:25:19] Yes. Did you see this? Yes. And they would like do imitations of different Looney Tunes characters. Can you imagine? And there was like a story of the two of them getting kicked out of a movie theater, like do it, watching Looney Tunes together. And even when I think Peter Cushing was on his deathbed, Christopher Lee went to him and they were doing this, like cracking each other up, like in the hospital, it was really, I mean, you know, sometimes you hear about friendships, but.

[00:25:41] There was something very evident and intimate and awesome about this friendship that was sort of unmistakable. Awesome. Okay, so I think we've got a good list of five. You said, okay, let's recap. Number one, musical taste. Number two, I said determination. Number three, you said generosity with the crew and sort of like humility and willing to acknowledge creative contributions.

[00:26:02] Number four, I said chased Nazis, probably. And number five, friendships, especially with Peter Cushing. Yeah. Hell of a list. All right, let's take a break.

[00:26:16] Michael, are you pro quarian? No, sir. I am antiquarian. What does it mean to be antiquarian? That means relating to or dealing in antiques or rare books. Which is why I am antiquarian. Oh, cause you like collecting rare books. Absolutely. And where do you find them? You just go to flea markets and SC the internet.

[00:26:36] Absolutely not. I go to Half Price books. They have all kinds of, both new and used books. It's not like you're only getting the old stuff at Half Price books. They also have new, fresh books. You know, write it right off , right off the right out of the oven. Including bestsellers. Including Bestsellers. Right off the press.

[00:26:53] Right off the press. Half Price Books is The Nation's largest new and used bookseller with 120 stores in 19 states. Half Price Books is also online at HPB.

[00:27:20] Okay, Category 3, Malkovich, Malkovich. This category is named after the movie Being John Malkovich, in which people can take a little portal into John Malkovich's mind and have a front row seat to his experiences. So I go first, uh, since we're doing this chronologically, 1975 is mine. I think you know this, but I'll just read what I read.

[00:27:40] He meets Muhammad Ali. In Cleveland, in 1975. This is, uh, Muhammad Ali, episode 31 of Famous and Gravy. According to Lee, I was promoting a film in Cleveland in 75, and this PR man said, Muhammad Ali is in town promoting a title fight, which was the thriller in Manila, the clash with Joe Frazier. Ali is a big fan and would love to meet you.

[00:28:03] So we went to this hotel, had a long chat, and I promised to watch the fight back in L. A. So, and this is what I love. I actually went to Hugh Hefner's mansion to watch it. So he's at the, Christopher Lee's at the Playboy Mansion. Watching Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali, along with a bunch of celebrities and a few boxers.

[00:28:23] At the end of the fight, which Ali won, this reporter shoved a mic into Ali's face and said, Do you have anything to say to your fans? Ali says, Yes. I just want to say that I won this fight for Christopher Lee, who's out there watching me now. I couldn't believe it because that's a million dollars worth of publicity.

[00:28:42] And then, this is my favorite part, and when the lights came on, people were looking at me in the Playboy Mansion. Stunned. And this black boxer said, how did you do that? And he turned and he said, magic. Black magic. And thank God he laughed. Okay. It's a very, like, that's a low hanging fruit, Malkovich. No, it's not.

[00:29:05] Come on. Here's what, here's something that I really, this will come up again in a later category, but something I think I see in Christopher Lee. Is actual humility. I think he's very aware of his body, his voice, his presence. I think he knows that, you know, if he's in the room, he's going to be a kind of lion in the room type, right?

[00:29:26] Yes. Um, but I also think he, you know, is humble and can laugh at himself. And, so there's just so many, like, this is the greatest boxer of all time in the Playboy mansion. And he gets called out and somebody says, how did you do that? I just wonder... Where his ego's at in that moment, right? What's, okay, what's your take?

[00:29:48] What do you think's going? I just want to know what's going on behind the eyes in Christopher Lee in this moment. What do you think's

[00:29:53] Morgan: happening? Confusion is what screams, like, this is the... Befuddlement? You are promoting a movie in Cleveland. Cleveland, first of all. You're in Cleveland. You... Are now you're in the playboy mansion.

[00:30:08] You're watching a Muhammad Ali boxing

[00:30:11] Michael: match. One of the greatest fights of all time. Yeah, Manila. Yes,

[00:30:14] Morgan: yes. And probably aware at the time that this is going to be history and then like. Muhammad Ali breaks the fourth wall and calls your name. Like, I don't understand how anyone would not just have like an out of body astral projection to look down on themselves and be like, where the fuck am I?

[00:30:31] This is like

[00:30:32] Michael: Taylor Swift at like a Chiefs game right now, pointing and saying, Morgan Honaker, I just want to thank you for your audio production workers laughing like

[00:30:39] Morgan: that. Yeah, exactly. I levitate out of my body. And watch it unfold.

[00:30:46] Michael: Oh God, I couldn't believe this story. Holy

[00:30:48] Morgan: shit. It was amazing. I had no idea about this either.

[00:30:51] I did find the same story and I, I, There's pictures

[00:30:53] Michael: of the two of them. There's and really connected. How Ali got to be a fan of Christopher Lee, I mean, I, I think Christopher Lee is a bigger deal than I think people realized, even in the mid seventies. Yes. You kind of associate him as this like cult horror figure, which in today's view can sound like smallish celebrity.

[00:31:13] And that's just not true. Muhammad Ali was like, Oh, huge fan. Can't wait to

[00:31:17] Morgan: talk to this guy. Yeah. I mean, the. The Hammer movies had more range, I think, than anyone really realized, even Christopher Lee, you know. You would know

[00:31:26] Michael: better than I would. I tried to get through some of them, there's only so many. Uh, okay, what's your Malkovich moment?

[00:31:31] Okay, so

[00:31:31] Morgan: my Malkovich moment is, uh, kind of on the other end of the spectrum. I remember watching this when it happened, but Christopher Lee... Accepted his Academy Fellowship at the BAFTAs, I believe it was in 2011, um, which for context, the BAFTAs are one of the biggest awards you can win as someone in the cinematic arts, and the Academy Fellowship Award at the BAFTAs is the, like, lifetime achievement equivalent at the, uh, Academy Awards, the, the Oscars.

[00:32:01] Right, so this is a massive honor, right? This is the biggest thing you can win, especially if you're a British actor. Yeah. So, Christopher Lee is awarded the Academy Fellowship at the BAFTAs, and I love watching this video. It's... It's something that I think everyone who does something, especially creative, where you don't tend to get like a lot of validation for what you're doing would want to have.

[00:32:24] This is something I would love to be able to experience, uh, which is Christopher Lee looking out at an audience of his peers. To be clear, the Academy Fellowship is a voted award, which means that his peers voted him this award. This was not one person just putting this on his head. This was a committee.

[00:32:42] But looking out over a crowd of your peers. Who are, like, from the beginning, when he's announced, they're clearly, like, everyone in the audience is so happy for him. Yeah. You know, walks up on the stage, accepts his award, gives a lovely, short, very sweet speech. And when he's done, like, immediate standing ovation, and just, like, thunderous applause, to see that manifested in the people that you work with.

[00:33:08] Like, recognizing you and loving you so deeply. It's just, it's an amazing thing. And especially that he was, and he even mentions this in his speech, that he was still alive to receive

[00:33:17] Michael: this award. That's what I was thinking as you were talking about this. Like, this is the kind of thing that happens at a funeral that we don't get to witness.

[00:33:23] Yeah. You know, uh, where, where there's this sort of outpouring, right? It usually happens after you

[00:33:27] Morgan: die. Especially for creative awards, you know, like often the Achievement Awards are given 10, 20 years after people die. Right, they're posthumous, yeah. Yeah, but with Christopher Lee, he got to be there. He got to see people be happy for him.

[00:33:41] Wow. And it's amazing. Yeah,

[00:33:43] Michael: I'm getting emotional thinking about it. I don't think I've seen this clip. Oh

[00:33:46] Morgan: my god, it makes me

[00:33:46] Michael: sob. I think there was a newspaper this morning that said I was probably going to cry. Something I don't very often do in films at any rate. But it's a very emotional moment for me.

[00:34:01] Uh, I'm thankful the fact that this was voted to me by my peers. I would like to say that this is without a doubt The finest image I've ever had.

[00:34:23] Morgan: And he is so grateful. Like, you can just hear it in his voice, he says it, but you can hear it, you can see it. And especially for someone who is not, like we're talking about, is not a Shakespearean actor, not someone who is like, as quote unquote, like, respected. Mm hmm. You know, there is a certain pallor to cult films that I don't think is warranted, but is there within the entertainment industry.

[00:34:45] And for him to still win this award, despite having like a cult career, I think is something that he was cognizant of at the time. And I think it really hit home for him, like, oh, I am a bigger deal than I thought I was. Yeah,

[00:35:00] Michael: wow. Good one. Goddamn, Morgan. Good one. Thank you. All right, let's move on. Category four, love and marriage.

[00:35:07] How many marriages? Also, how many kids? And is there anything public about these relationships? This is shockingly

[00:35:13] Morgan: simple. That's an easy one, right?

[00:35:15] Michael: Yeah. One marriage. I don't think I can say her name right. She's dead. Dutch Brigitte? Gitti? Yeah. Something like that. They were married in 1961. Christopher was about 39 at the time.

[00:35:26] They were together until his death in 2015, a total of about 54 years, one daughter. You know, when you see this, he's just sort of like, Beautiful, I'm going to leave it. I think it is also, to me it is also noteworthy, somebody who was something of a sex symbol, right? His Dracula performance is, like, described off and over as, like, having a sexuality about it.

[00:35:51] And, you know, he's in Bond films, for Christ's sakes, and he's hanging out at the Playboy Mansion.

[00:35:55] Morgan: And especially, like, he and his wife. Didn't date that long.

[00:35:58] Michael: I was always told that if we eventually met, you would either kill me on sight, or marry me on sight.

[00:36:07] Morgan: Whereupon, he had three double dry martinis, and

[00:36:11] Michael: then...

[00:36:12] What could I do? You went for a walk. What could I asked her to marry me. Did you see the previous relationship? Oh, yeah. Okay, why don't you describe this? Because this is

[00:36:24] Morgan: pretty interesting. So Lee, before he married Jeet, Brigitte, was engaged to be married to a countess from Sweden. It's something von something.

[00:36:34] Yeah, it's Henrietta Iwa. Agnes von Rosen. Um, I'll see some people call her Henrietta. Some people call her Agnes. I'm not sure which one she actually went by. Von Rosen is. Von Rosen, yes. Uh, she in herself is a very interesting person. She's like royalty, right? Pretty much. She's a countess in Sweden. Sweden had one of the, the oldest and most relevant monarchies at the time.

[00:36:58] Right. But Christopher Lee had to get the permission Of the King of

[00:37:04] Michael: Sweden. Eventually, right? Father in law to be has him investigated and he's like, what in the hell am I being put through? And then gets the blessing from the King

[00:37:14] Morgan: of Sweden. Yeah, because he had met him on the set of a TV show he had worked on, like Tales of Hans Christian.

[00:37:20] Right. That the king of Sweden had come to visit and Christopher Lee met him. He's like, Oh yeah, I can do that.

[00:37:25] Michael: Just get the king's blessing and we can make this marriage happen. But then Christopher Lee gets cold feet around this. Yeah. Anyway. All right. Another just bit of trivia there. I guess this is the place to get into some of the other family connections.

[00:37:37] Sure. Who was it? His, it wasn't exactly a cousin, but.

[00:37:40] Morgan: Step cousin is how I, I'm not, you know, first step, all that stuff gets confusing, but it was by marriage. Uh,

[00:37:46] Michael: Ian Fleming. Yes. Right, the creator of James Bond. And then we already mentioned Charlemagne, and you mentioned The Carandinis. So overall, it's just like a fascinating family life.

[00:37:56] But also a beautiful one. One marriage lasting 54 years. Let's leave it at that. High marks and, uh, for him. Yeah. Alright, shall we move on? Yes. Category 5, net worth. Did you

[00:38:07] Morgan: look this up? I did not. I feel like it's gonna be lower than what I think it is. Why don't you take a guess, and I'll tell you. Ugh. Okay, I know he didn't make a lot on Hammer.

[00:38:16] And I know that on Lord of the Rings. Most of the actors did not make a ton of residuals except for Elijah

[00:38:21] Michael: Wood. I think you're a more well informed person to guess than you

[00:38:24] Morgan: realize. So, most of his money's probably coming from Star Wars slash Hobbit movies, where he did probably get bigger residuals. So, I'm gonna go, like, ten million.

[00:38:35] Better than that. Twenty five. Twenty five million. Okay. That is, that is higher. For somebody

[00:38:38] Michael: who makes it to ninety three, was into two hundred and fifty million. And came from wealth. Yeah, and came from wealth. And two hundred and fifty, uh, different movies over the course of his career. I could have, I could have seen this, I actually thought it was going to be higher.

[00:38:50] Oh, really? Yeah, but only because, because of the longevity. But I love the number and I love it for him. I think that sits really well.

[00:38:58] Morgan: And I think it's good, relevant to the scale of franchise he worked with. Yeah, that's why I was going more on the low end, is I know Hammer didn't pay well. Again, like the early Lord of the Rings films.

[00:39:11] They were basically independent movies. And so I was like,

[00:39:15] Michael: well... I felt like you were doing a little bit of the price is right thing there. Like, I'll go 1. 00.

[00:39:20] Morgan: But I think 25 mils.

[00:39:21] Michael: 25 mils is good. Okay, good for him. Alright, uh, Category 6. Simpsons, Saturday Night Live, or Halls of Fame. This category is a measure of how famous a person is.

[00:39:30] We include both guest appearances on SNL or The Simpsons, as well as impersonations. Based on your reaction, you know this, hosted SNL in seven years. Ladies and gentlemen, Christopher Lee! Thank you. Thank you very much. I've appeared in over 130 motion pictures, and not all of them begin at 3am on Channel 9.

[00:39:59] As you may know, I first came to public attention through my appearances in certain rather... Eerie and macabre films, but you may be surprised to learn that I haven't made one in several years. This is because I have a great deal of respect for this kind of film and I don't think that very good ones are being produced anymore.

[00:40:17] Week after week I find myself receiving scripts like Dr. Terror's House of Pancakes. It sounded like he had a blast with Belushi and Dan Aykroyd and like many of the original guys. Uh

[00:40:29] Morgan: huh. Plus did you see the musical guest? No. Meatloaf. Wow. Wow. Right?

[00:40:35] Michael: And then from there, uh, there's not a whole lot more.

[00:40:38] There, I, actually, I couldn't find anything on The Simpsons. I was

[00:40:41] Morgan: surprised by that, personally.

[00:40:42] Michael: Yeah, I wanted him to be on a Treehouse of Horror. Yeah. It should have been. And no Hollywood star. No. Which is disappointing. And no Arsenio

[00:40:50] Morgan: Hall. I will say, though. Yeah. He was knighted.

[00:40:53] Michael: This category has always been kind of funny in terms of our metrics of fame, but the host at SNL and yet is 0 for 3 in the other categories kind of does somehow in a, in a backwards way acknowledge his semi cult status.

[00:41:08] Yes. You know what I mean? Like he's very famous here and not present at all over there. That kind of is similar to the nature of his fame

[00:41:17] Morgan: overall. Yeah. You would be hard pressed, I think to find someone in the UK who didn't know what he. Who he was. Right. But I think in the U. S. he's like slightly

[00:41:25] Michael: less.

[00:41:25] He's a sort of different figure. Yeah, I think that's true. I think that's true. I think he had, he also had multiple chapters. I mean, I think. Exactly. There's the Hammer films, which I think are bigger overseas. But then, yeah. Um, okay. All right, Category 7, Over Under. In this category we look at the generalized life expectancy for the year somebody was born to see if they beat the house odds and to look for signs of graceful aging.

[00:41:48] So this is hard, uh, when you go back this far you can't

[00:41:51] Morgan: find good data. I know, I could only find data from, uh, I think it was University of Berkeley. Oh, what did you find? I found in 1922 that the average life expectancy for men was 58. 4.

[00:42:02] Michael: 35 years over. He died in 93, um, so crushed it. It's out of here. Oh, yeah.

[00:42:07] It's gone. Multiple standard deviations away from, from the mean. And up, I mean, about as graceful as they come. Like next level grace, like defining grace, right? And he appears sharp minded as well. He was, he's very lucid. You don't see a tremendous amount of cognitive decline.

[00:42:25] Morgan: No, just a little, he's just a little slower.

[00:42:27] Yeah. That's basically

[00:42:28] Michael: it, you know. Really good. Alright, high marks for graceful aging. Okay, let's take another break. Alright, next category. Man in the mirror. What did this person think when they saw themselves reflected in the mirror? I got something I want to say here. I did think he was a little insecure about his height.

[00:42:46] At least initially. I think he came to wear it, but I saw things about him. Not having high confidence about going into acting because he was quote unquote too tall. And that is a concern. I've always been a little surprised on all sides of that, that we care so much about this.

[00:43:01] Morgan: I think that for acting specifically.

[00:43:04] Yeah. Especially for film acting. Yes. Because when you start getting to those people who are either very short or very tall, it becomes difficult to block them. Right. And shoot them. Right. It's actually like. You have to boost everyone else up. Yeah, you've got to account for it in the frame. Exactly. Like, uh, you know, if you've got like a very petite actress whose love interest is a very tall man, that's a problem when they go to kiss on screen.

[00:43:31] Like you got to boost the girl up or have the guy like squat basically. Which they

[00:43:35] Michael: do this, they make those kinds of accommodations. They do.

[00:43:38] Morgan: But it But it's hard. It costs more money. I think a lot of the insecurity was just from the fact that it's going to be a little harder to get cast simply because your, like, physicality is harder to accommodate.

[00:43:50] Yeah, but

[00:43:50] Michael: overall I would say, if I had to make a call, I do think he liked it. Obviously he's handsome, but I think he's also, it seems like he enjoys being a little bit villainous.

[00:44:02] Morgan: I think yes, too. I think even just like, even in that BAFTA speech where he's, you know, just a few years away from passing, he's so old, but even then he's like, quaffed.

[00:44:13] Like, he's in a beautiful suit, his hair is done, and this goes for his wife, too. Them together, they always looked wonderful. Yeah. Like, he always looked very good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think he did like, physically what he saw. But. I don't see a ton of insecurity in Christopher Lee. I think that With leaning into the villainous aspect, I don't know if that's, like, intentional on his part.

[00:44:39] For me, Christopher Lee just sort of looks like a villain, but to me, I think he just sort of, um... He played Saruman from Crysis. He said, but he wanted to play Gandalf,

[00:44:49] Michael: you know? Yeah, this is

[00:44:51] Morgan: true, this is true, And this is something I've always liked about him is, to me, he feels extremely kind. And I think that's what makes his villains very effective, is they're not just like, bah, evil, you know.

[00:45:01] They're these very layered... villains because Christopher Lee always, and he's talked about this when he plays them, he wants to see the world the way they see it. And like, most of the time villains don't see themselves as villains. As villains. He's empathetic to his character. Yeah. And so I, I honestly, for me, I don't see him as leaning into the, the villainous aspect as much as just like, that's how we know him.

[00:45:26] He's making peace with it. Yeah. It's more just, um, like physically, that's just kind of how he looks.

[00:45:32] Michael: This is what you, these are the cards that were dealt.

[00:45:35] Morgan: It's kind of like how, I mean, again, just to, cause they're, they're kind of counterparts like Ian McKellen or, or like Richard Harris, like they kind of always sort of look like nice grandpas.

[00:45:44] Yeah, totally, totally. But Christopher Lee looks kind of like your evil uncle. Yeah, he's

[00:45:49] Michael: a little intimidating. There's no question about it. Those eyes are piercing. Yeah. He's a little scary. Plus he chased Nazis. Probably. Probably. Most likely. Most likely. I was going to tell people that. Uh, all right, let's move on.

[00:46:00] Category nine, outgoing message. How do we think they felt about the sound of their own voice? Also, do we think that they would have had the humility to record it themselves? And it's really that humility piece that is what we most care about, because I feel like this man loved his voice. Oh, yeah. We are in Alan Rickman territory here.

[00:46:18] Yeah. But yeah, I mean, next level voice. Holy shit. Sauron has regained much of his former strength. He cannot yet take physical form, but his spirit has lost none of its potency. Concealed within his fortress, the Lord of Mordor sees all. His gaze pierces cloud, shadow, earth, and flesh. My feeling is that there is some real humility in this guy.

[00:46:46] I think he would have Delighted in saying you've reached the voicemail of Christopher Lee.

[00:46:51] Morgan: Same. Yeah. One

[00:46:52] Michael: hundred percent. I actually didn't have to think about it all that much.

[00:46:55] Morgan: There's um, one particular, uh, anecdote. I was reading, um, Peter Jackson telling stories about Christopher Lee right after Lee's death.

[00:47:05] And he was telling this story about how... Peter Jackson and Christopher Lee were hanging out after either a Hobbit or I think it was during Lord of the Rings filming and Christopher Lee brought up Steven Spielberg and Christopher Lee was like, oh, yeah, I worked with him on this one movie I doubt he would remember me.

[00:47:20] Yeah, and Peter Jackson was like, what the hell are you talking about? Of course, he will remember you but like Christopher Lee was so sure that Spielberg wouldn't Remember him. Yeah, which is an insane thing to say. That's a crazy thing to say. But it to the point where you stick in people's minds, Christopher.

[00:47:35] Yeah, to the point where Peter Jackson like reached out to Spielberg right then and Spielberg like recorded a video message of him just like gushing over Christopher Lee. Oh my goodness. Wow. Um, and I do think that again, I've mentioned this before. I think that Christopher Lee was aware he was a famous movie star.

[00:47:53] Yeah, somewhat. Right. But I don't think he was ever truly aware of how famous and important he was. And I think a lot of that is just his humility. Yeah. Like he was like, well, I'm, I'm an actor, but I'm not, you know. How big a deal am I really?

[00:48:08] Michael: Yeah.

[00:48:09] Morgan: So I see a lot of humility.

[00:48:10] Michael: There was one other thing I wanted to say about...

[00:48:13] Just on the subject of Tolkien, this hadn't come up yet, he's the only guy who met him. Only one who met him. Of everybody who worked on Lord of the Rings. And it sounds like when, when he met him, when Christopher Lee met J. R. R. Tolkien, he fell apart. Yeah. Where you're like, oh my god, it's him. Yeah. You know, because he was a huge fan.

[00:48:28] Yeah. He like read the books once a year

[00:48:29] Morgan: or whatever. Yeah, he did. Yeah, I read it was just like some random, Coincidence where it's like in a pub or something. Yeah, they like ran into each other in a bar and Christopher Lee was like, oh my god

[00:48:40] Michael: I like the idea of him melting. I know

[00:48:42] Morgan: right? Can you imagine him doing that with anyone else?

[00:48:44] Yeah,

[00:48:45] Michael: it's a good scene. All right next category Control z this is where we look for the big do overs the things in life. You might have done differently I got one that i've been saving. Do you know who dr. Rumak is?

[00:48:58] Morgan: Oh, yeah I have, I have this too. Did you really? This was your conclusion? Yeah. Do you want to explain it?

[00:49:02] I love, I love Airplane. Let me tell you what.

[00:49:06] Michael: So Dr. Rumack is the Leslie Nielsen character. Shout out to our friends at the Shirley, You Can't Be Serious podcast, which we've become buddies with those guys. So Christopher Lee was originally meant to be cast as Leslie Nielsen's character, Dr. Rumack in Airplane.

[00:49:22] And he talked about it as a big regret. Yeah. I think he could have done it too. Um, the other, uh, casting what if,

[00:49:30] Morgan: I think, I think I might have the same one. You go ahead and take this one. Um, is it a, is it a Halloween movie? It is a, it has to

[00:49:35] Michael: be brought up for this

[00:49:36] Morgan: reason. Actually, um, the Halloween movie.

[00:49:38] It is Halloween

[00:49:39] Michael: with John Carpenter. Yes, Sam Loomis. Exactly. Um, and he, it sounded like he vacillated on which one was a bigger regret for him. Yes. A bigger control Z. I'm glad he wasn't in Halloween because it would've further, not typecast, but just like put him in this horror movie association. You know, I mean, this is Halloween coming out in what, 77, 78?

[00:49:58] Morgan: Yeah, right around then. Oh my god. Um, plus I do, you know, it's funny there, it's like Doctor, Doctor. And then, uh, he did, Chris Frilly did play the Doctor in Gremlins 2. Right. So he did get one of the Doctors, you know. An underrated movie, Gremlins 2 is fun. Yeah, with both of these, you

[00:50:16] Michael: know. They're not big control Zs.

[00:50:17] They're sort of like, oh, it could have

[00:50:19] Morgan: happened. I do think Airplane could have been a big control Z. You

[00:50:22] Michael: think so? Well, just because of more comedy, he wanted to do comedy?

[00:50:25] Morgan: Well, I, he never, cause 1941 was kind of the only one he did. Gremlins,

[00:50:30] Michael: arguably,

[00:50:31] Morgan: are gremlins too. Right, but his character is not like super funny and you know, he's not a comic relief.

[00:50:37] And he

[00:50:38] Michael: was on SNL around this time, so I think he was like making forays into comedy. He was

[00:50:43] Morgan: trying his hand,

[00:50:44] Michael: yeah. Yeah, would have been interesting to see where that led.

[00:50:47] Morgan: One of my favorites. Christopher Lee performances is the Tim Burton Willy Wonka

[00:50:53] Michael: movie. I just watched that with my son. Uh, he's reading Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[00:50:58] And I'd forgotten that Christopher Lee's in it. He plays Willy Wonka's father. Caramel. They'd get stuck in your braces, wouldn't they?

[00:51:09] Lollipops. What we called cavities on a stick. Then we have all this chocolate.

[00:51:22] You know, some children are allergic to chocolate.

[00:51:26] Morgan: That, I think, is probably, for me, his funniest role. Like, he's actually extremely funny as the dad. Because he's so deadpan. Yes. You know? I think, no, I think

[00:51:37] Michael: that there's, I think that there's a sense of humor that we didn't fully get to experience. I, I, I agree.

[00:51:44] The bigger control Z here is airplane. I think so. Okay. Category 11. Second to last category. Coffee, cocktail, or cannabis. Which one would we most want to do with our dead celebrity? This may be a question of what drug sounds like the most fun to partake with this person, or another philosophy is that a particular kind of drug might allow access to a part of them we are most curious about.

[00:52:07] What do you got?

[00:52:08] Morgan: There's only one answer for me. Really? Which is cocktail. That's what I had to. I, I just... Like you just

[00:52:13] Michael: want to have a

[00:52:13] Morgan: drink with him? I have a plan here. Alright. Set the scene. Okay. So, we are drinking dry martinis because I saw, I love dry martinis, and I saw a clip, one of the only clips I found of Christopher Lee and his wife talking together where she was talking about how he could knock back three dry martinis really quickly.

[00:52:32] Yeah. Um, and with his frame. I love that. I feel like he could go on drinking for a while. So I feel like I might get the longest conversation with him if i'm just like Shoveling gin at this man who could probably drink forever and never actually get drunk. Yeah. You know,

[00:52:48] Michael: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I agree. I love that scene.

[00:52:51] So what is it? Is it about the hang? Is it about just like the

[00:52:54] Morgan: vibes? Yeah, I think for me I want Going to like a really nice bar in Copenhagen with Christopher Lee. Right. Drinking martinis all night. Right. That sounds awesome. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

[00:53:07] Michael: I, uh, I had, uh, whiskey. I went, uh, I wanted a whiskey drink. I went with an old fashioned.

[00:53:12] Um, just cause I, I, I remember being at this bar once where they had, uh, ice cubes that were the size of tennis balls. Yes. I've seen those. Yeah. Yeah. And they were serving old fat and I was like, that'd be a good one to do with Christopher Lee. Mm hmm. But same thing. I bet it could knock him back. I bet it would just get more, like, raucous.

[00:53:30] I'd love to, I'd love to just hang out on his wavelength. I think he's got a great wavelength. And then get to

[00:53:35] Morgan: the Looney Tunes impressions.

[00:53:37] Michael: Exactly. 2am Looney Tunes. We were talking about a second ago. I think that there is like, I sense a sense of humor without it being on display. If there's anything I want, like, access to, it's that.

[00:53:50] I'd like to experience, uh, his charm. I, because I think it's tremendous. All right, are we there? I guess we are. Final category. The Vanderbeek named after James Vanderbeek, who famously said in Varsity Blues, I don't want your life. Morgan, do you want? Christopher

[00:54:07] Morgan: Lee's life. I mean, without hesitation, yes.

[00:54:09] That's

[00:54:10] Michael: kind of where I'm at. I'm actually really trying to think about the case against, you know? Like, so, because you have to, I came into this with, like, I think so. And the more I learned about the guy, I mean, every category we've talked about, which that is the point of Famous and Gravy, is to, like, each category is meant to surface a different facet of somebody's humanity and inner life and outer life.

[00:54:31] Like, even the regrets category are not big regrets. You weren't in a dumb Zucker Brothers movie? Okay, that'll be like... Like, big loss in a way. So, I don't know, what do you see as the case against? Like, why, why, why would you not take it? Do you see anything that's like...

[00:54:47] Morgan: The only thing I can really think is...

[00:54:50] If you are someone who... wants to make more of their own determination of what kind of art they make. Like the typecasting with Christopher Lee, even though, like you mentioned, he talked about not really agreeing with the fact that he was typecast after he left the UK, at least, you know, once he got to his U.

[00:55:09] S. career, he was like, well, actually there's only 15 roles I would consider villains out of my 250 whatever. Right. But, I do think he was extremely typecast, um, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing either, to be clear. I think that if you are an actor, Tom Cruise is really good at playing kind of asshole ish, like, action stars.

[00:55:29] Yeah, yeah. And he's built a really good career off that. Christopher Lee built a great career out of being a villain. Yeah. And it's not

[00:55:36] Michael: just one character, right? It's not, it's not like Nimoy with Spock.

[00:55:40] Morgan: It's not. It's much more diversity than Nimoy for sure. Right. And I think Nimoy probably envied the career that Christopher Lee had, whereas I feel like Christopher Lee...

[00:55:49] If he did envy anyone, might have envied the career of, like, Ian McKellen. Yes. You know.

[00:55:53] Michael: Yes. But that's also a little bit out of his hands. And I see more gratitude for the career he got to have than regret that he didn't take certain opportunities. It's interesting. The one fork in the road really does seem to be about comedies.

[00:56:06] I mean, and it isn't sort of in the late 70s. Could have been an airplane, was on SNL. Yeah. And there's funny movies being made around there where you could see... You know, casting what ifs that Christopher Lee slots in.

[00:56:17] Morgan: Especially if this big break in horror around that time where comedy really kind of lifts off in a way that like right now we're in the opposite.

[00:56:26] I feel like where there's fewer comedies and so many horror movies. And he really could have parlayed that into a different kind of career. As far as a case against, for one, you're born into wealth, you're born into privilege, who doesn't want that? Ultimately out of your control, but I think everyone would want that if they had the option.

[00:56:44] Yes, I'd rather not be poor. He was like, you know, I tried looking up controversy with Christopher Lee. While I know during this conversation it's been a lot of, oh my gosh, this is so cool, cool, cool. Like he was a really neat person, but like he's still a person. Sure. You know, about the only things I could find were obviously there were a few times.

[00:57:02] Just like most actors during that era, where he played Asian or Middle Eastern characters, and clearly he's a white man. Right. You know, there's really, I, I feel like a lot of his personal life is very private, and I, I think that's a good thing as an actor, especially because now, you know, his wife, who is still alive, and is...

[00:57:23] So, Hilary in like, no one really knows where they are and they can live as they want. Yeah. But that also means it's harder to judge in some ways like the case against his life when we saw the best parts of it. Well, with

[00:57:33] Michael: each, with every episode it's based on what's notable. I mean, you know, and there's You can never know enough in a way.

[00:57:40] Morgan: Yeah, and from what I know, I am incapable of really forming like a cohesive argument against. Yeah. Just because like, you know. I think you laid out a good

[00:57:49] Michael: one though. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that there is career what ifs, and I think that, I, I think some of the regrets you might have about certain portrayals in your career are like, that didn't age well and I wish I hadn't gone down that road.

[00:57:59] Sure, sure. But, you know, like, when you look at the things that are working for him, you know, what looks to be a great. marriage. What looks to be a sort of dynamic and interesting. Plus, I mean, there's all kinds of like, I don't know, like the stories of this guy. I mean, we didn't even bring it up, but he saw the last public beheading in France.

[00:58:18] Yeah, I

[00:58:18] Morgan: know. He met the assassins of Rasputin. Right. I know there's so many, like, mile, I think partially because of

[00:58:25] Michael: Wynn. I want

[00:58:26] Morgan: to be an interesting person. Exactly. See some of the things that only a few people have seen. Yeah. Do some of the things only a few people have been able to do just by, like, happenstance or privilege.

[00:58:36] Like, that's cool. And then also, like, be recognized as just, like, a pretty cool dude.

[00:58:44] Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and have an auditorium full of people stand up, you know, shoot to their feet. Yeah. Um,

[00:58:49] Morgan: to applaud your Yeah. To win something that recognizes your achievements.

[00:58:55] Michael: All right, so let's not make it any more complicated.

[00:58:57] We're both a resounding yes. I want your life, Christopher Lee.

[00:59:00] Morgan: I want to see what it's like to be 6'5 and look at other people.

[00:59:03] Michael: Yeah, well... That video game is coming. Um, uh, Morgan, you are Christopher Lee. You've died. You've ascended to, uh, the pearly gates. Standing before you is Saint Peter, the Unitarian proxy for the afterlife.

[00:59:21] You have an opportunity to make a pitch. What was your great contribution to the stream

[00:59:27] Morgan: of life? As an actor, one of the more important things that we have the ability to do is to share our humanity in a generous way with other people. And often we don't, because we're wrapped up in the idea of our own mythos and who that can market to.

[00:59:48] And I always brought a... Sense of honesty to my roles, because I wanted people to see me and by proxy these characters as people. Even if they are villainous, even if they are doing bad things, so that they can better understand what makes people people. And I think that with over 250 titles to my name, where I brought that sense of humanity and humility to my work.

[01:00:14] Work that I did until I could not do it anymore. I think that's enough of a case to let me in.

[01:00:24] Michael: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Famous Gravy, and thanks again to Morgan Honaker for coming in and guesting. Hama Kapoor will be with us next time. Famous Gravy listeners, before you leave, we need your help.

[01:00:36] We need you to participate in our opening quiz where we reveal the dead celebrity. You can email us at hello at famousandgravy. com. And if you're enjoying the show, please tell your friends. We're on Twitter, X, threads. Our handle is at famous and gravy. We have a newsletter you can sign up for on our website, famous and gravy.

[01:00:56] com. Famous and gravy was created by Amit Kapoor and me, Michael Osborne. This episode was produced by wonderful Jacob Weiss, original theme music by Kevin Strang. Thank you so much for listening. See you next time.