088 Dirty Dancer transcript (Patrick Swayze)

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Amit: [00:00:00] This is Famous and Gravy biographies from a different point of view. Now for the opening quiz to reveal today's dead celebrity.

Michael: This person died 2009, age 57. His father was an engineer and a rodeo cowboy. Uh, Walter Payton, not Walter Payton. In the 1970s, he moved to New York to study dance, becoming a member of the Elliot Feld Ballet.[00:00:30]

When was he born? You didn't tell me. Uh, I not, I'm not giving that, that information's not available in this place.

Friend: Uh, I know he is not dead. Uh, Robert Redford, I'm just thinking he switched gears but alive.

Michael: He was a student athlete and his dancing career was hampered by a football injury. Gosh, football, ballet.

The only name coming to my head is Herschel

Friend: Walker,

Michael: not Herchel Walker. He's as of this recording, Herschel Walker's [00:01:00] still with us. Herschel Walker. Was he in ballet? Yeah. Is that right? Wow, that's good. True. I had no idea. All right. He was determined not to be typecast. He said in a 1989 interview quote, the only plan I have is that every time people think they have me pegged, I'm gonna come outta left field and do something unexpected.

Friend: It's not Paul Newman.

Michael: Paul Newman, not Paul Newman, the coming of age film. Dirty Dancing, established him as a romantic leading man. [00:01:30] Patrick Swayze. Patrick Swayze, today's dead celebrity. Is Patrick Swayze

Friend: For the person who has not seen Dirty Dancing, whoever that may be, and who does not know Patrick Swayze and is meeting you tonight for the first time, what do you want them to know about you?

That I'm a good actor That, that I'm someone to be reckoned with, that I can give. People something through my work that they see. They, you know, they make their lives lighter for a moment or inspired or, or passionate about who they are and feeling good about themselves. [00:02:00] And I can definitely swing my butt.

Michael: Welcome to Famous and Gravy. I'm Michael Osborne. And I'm Ahmed Kapur. And on this show we choose a famous figure who died in the 21st century and present a new narrative. Most biographies focus on legacies and accomplishments, but we are interested in the journey, the process, the experiences. What didn't we know?

What could we not see [00:02:30] clearly? And what does a celebrity's life story teach us about ourselves today? Patrick Swayze died 2009, age 57.

Category one, grading the first line of their obituary. Patrick Swayze, the ballet athletic actor who rose to stardom in the film's dirty, dancing and Ghost and whose 20 month battle with advanced pancreatic cancer. [00:03:00] Drew wide attention died Monday

Amit: he was 57. I think we start with the inclusions of the movies.

So at first I scoffed and I was like, that's all you're gonna mention is dirty dancing and ghost. Gimme a little roadhouse, gimme a point break. But those were so huge by any multiple of the other ones. Yeah. That after I researched, I'm like, yeah, that's right.

Michael: I think we had the exact same reaction. I was like, yeah, but those aren't the movies I love him for.

I love Red Dawn. I love Point Break. I love, you know, outsiders Roadhouse and I did the, [00:03:30] I think the exact same thing you did. I went to Box Office. Gross and Dirty Dancing and Ghost are absolutely the biggest box office movies for Patrick Swayze. And probably it's appropriate that those are the ones to go with.

But I also flinched. When? When I saw those. Yeah. Well, good for us for coming to

Amit: our senses

Michael: together. Yeah. Okay. Let's go to ballet athletic actor. Have you ever seen or used balletic in a sentence before? There's no context in my life in which it would've

Amit: been appropriate.

Michael: You, I have a [00:04:00] biotically apt cat.

Maybe it's a word we should use more, but ballet is not usually turned into an adjective.

Amit: Yes. So are you saying you like or dislike?

Michael: It's a, that's a good question. It's a little bit weird, but it's very accurate. Yeah. He was a trained ballet

Amit: dancer. I don't know. What do you think? I think it's kind of brilliant, Michael.

Really like, 'cause this, the, the guy was so much right. He was the dancer. He was the fighter. He was a martial artist. Yeah. He was literally a cowboy. You know, all these things that are a mix of [00:04:30] both, uh, dancing and athleticism and I don't know that I could come up with like two words to, to kind of encapsulate it all.

Michael: And so balletic is a better word than graceful, nimble. Any of the other adjectives you might come up with to describe a top tier ballet dancer?

Amit: Correct. 'cause it's a nod to that top tier achievement that he had. Yeah. But also is spanning into everything else that he did with grace and agility. But I wanna talk about the adjectives.

Is there a missing one? Because I was kind of [00:05:00] thinking smoldering. Yeah. Or some sort of hard throb nod. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, would it have been wrong to say sexy? No, I think that's appropriate. I don't know if it's first line like obituary New York Times standards.

Michael: Well, but it's truth, isn't it? I kind of feel like you have to at least consider it.

I don't know. By saying poetically athletic, they are getting at the whole body in a way that it's not just his smoldering good looks and handsome face. It's the whole thing.

Archival: It occurred to me in watching good [00:05:30] dancers, and you are an extraordinary dancer, that they really do have a commanding presence.

The good ones really have a commanding presence, and that's why I wondered if. That translated to your acting career? Well, probably so, because on stage, the only way as a dancer on stage, the only way you have, uh, to communicate is through your body. And, um, as time goes on, you get more skilled at communicating many different [00:06:00] things without words.

Michael: All right. Let's talk about the last part, 20 month battle with advanced pancreatic cancer. Drew wide attention. Usually they don't talk much about the nature of death in the first line of the obituary.

Amit: Yes.

Michael: Was that the right call or is that heat of the moment decision I.

Amit: It's very present tense. 'cause it was a very public battle with pancreatic cancer that hadn't really been as public for a lot of people before.

Yeah. You know, especially pancreatic cancer, which can kill people quickly. Quickly. Yeah. No, it's like you, that [00:06:30] you tend to hear, think death sentence when you hear that diagnosis. Yeah. And he was out there. I mean we, it's very hard to transport ourselves back to 2009. But you know, he was out there giving interviews or going to a Stand up to cancer event.

Yeah. Very much. Saying like, this may be the last time that I give an interview.

Archival: I dream that everyone diagnosed will be fortunate enough to have hope that every human being lost to cancer isn't gone, but is standing here with us tonight. I dream that the word cure will no longer be followed by the words.

It's [00:07:00] impossible. I.

Michael: This is 2009 where this is, we're recording this 15 years later and I think, you know, you were to ask a random person on the street, do you know how Patrick Swayze died? They'd probably be able to tell you cancer and they may even be able to tell you pancreatic cancer. Yeah, they, and when you ask 'em what their favorite movie is, they hope they say Red Dawn, but they'll probably say Ghosted Dirty Dancing.

There'll be a few

Amit: point breaks,

Michael: right? I hope so. What's yours? What's your favorite? Swayze? A

Amit: great question. I think probably point break.

Michael: Yeah, that's where I was leaning. Point break and red Donna. Right, right there. Neck and neck for me. [00:07:30] Let's return to the Swayze movies later.

Amit: So do you have your score? I do.

Uh, it's pretty solid. I'm giving it a nine. Yeah, so just one point deduction for omission of sexy or heartthrob. I think that is part of the narrative.

Michael: I'm also giving it a nine. I don't see any reason to dock this two points. I feel a little slighted that my favorite movies didn't make it in here.

Otherwise I'm good. So nine and nine. Okay. Very good. First line of well done. New York Times category two. Five Things I love about you here, Ahmad and I develop a list of five things that offer a different angle [00:08:00] on who this person was and how they lived. You kick us off.

Amit: Okay. My phrase is, break a leg. Oh, so this was handed into in the quiz.

So Patrick Swayze, at the age of 18, he had been dancing, his mom was a dance school instructor.

Michael: A choreographer, yeah. Yeah. So it was like the woman of Houston, Texas leading the ballet and dance scene.

Amit: Correct. But he was a football stud. And at the age of 18, that's probably went. Would make him a high school senior.

He suffered a terrible injury.

Michael: Yeah. This is in his [00:08:30] book. I mean, he gets crunched on the sideline and like his leg is just dangling there. Like a noodle.

Amit: Yeah. And they said it, it atrophied. I mean, he was in a cast from hip to toe for something like six months. People are telling him sports are out, dancing is out.

Like you're lucky if you walk again.

Michael: And it should be said. He was getting scholarship inquiries. Right. Like he was that level of athlete.

Amit: He was, it was badly. He was more than bad. He was. Pre politically athletic. Yeah, right. He was just athletic. Right. So the doctors are all telling him it's near impossible.

And this became Patrick [00:09:00] Swayze's motivation to prove them wrong. You know, I think one of the things that'll come up in this conversation is don't tell him you can't do something because he's gonna do it. And so for the next two years as he rehabilitated, he became. A world-class dancer in response to this football injury.

Michael: I mean, he had been a good dancer up until that, but he like doubles down on his dancing aspirations. Correct?

Amit: Yeah, totally. Football or something that's that hard on the knees and on the body is outta the question. Yeah. But he takes this weakness, this [00:09:30] deficiency, and turns it into an absolute strength.

This has come up a few times. With other people on the show, Maya Angelou, for example. Mm-Hmm. And I love it. I love the, you tell me I can't, so I can't. That is the beginning of the unfolding of everything we know about Patrick Swayze, how the athletic roots becomes classically trained ballet dancer goes to New York to become a dancer, you know, sort of this taxing on his body because of the injury.

There's f. Four more operations that follow this.

Michael: Yeah. I had to get his knee drained all the time. Yeah. I knew like he was going [00:10:00] through excruciating training, trying to just hang.

Amit: Yeah. So to be a dancer is not gonna be possible either. And it's kind of when he decides to become an actor, but then he infuses dancing into his acting.

Yeah. But it all goes back to this very same point of breaking a leg when you're 18, thinking it's all done. People are telling you you can't. And Patrick Swayze is like, well damn it, I'll show you.

Michael: This is very related to mine, and I'm not sure if it's a separate idea. So I'll offer this up and you tell me if this is the same idea or not.

Okay. I wrote onto the Next Dream. [00:10:30] Okay. It is similar in that it's part of the story, but in his biography that he co-authors with his wife Lisa. Shortly before he died it came out. He talks about how important it is to. Have a dream. Always have a dream, and it's something that I see play out in his story, but I am blowing it out here into a more universal kind of life philosophy that I don't think I ask people often enough.

What is your dream? And I think it's a really important question to ask people. It's not just [00:11:00] what do you want to do in life, but it's like what do you dream about? What are you fantasizing about? And is that obtainable and possible? When he's young, he is very indoctrinated into the world of dance in Houston.

Then he falls in love with sports and gymnastics and is a great athlete in high school. Breaks his legs, then starts dreaming about dance. Gets to a point where that's not tenable, as you said, and starts dreaming about Hollywood. But even when he gets into Hollywood, he pushes himself to, I don't want to just be a heartthrob movie [00:11:30] star.

I want to be a great actor, and I want to be taken seriously. And. We can debate how well that went. Yes. But my point here is that I wish we talked about our dreams more often. And

Amit: I wish

Michael: we as, as

Amit: adults, I think as adults, exactly. All you do is ask children what their dreams

Michael: are. Absolutely. And we'd let that sunset at some point.

You know, like, well, the real world's here and you can't do that anymore. And I believe, and this is something I love about him, that that. Actually should be a life philosophy that some things, yes, [00:12:00] become cut off by age or by economic reality, or by just how difficult something may be. But I think that having a dream and having dreams and being future gazing about optimistic possibilities for yourself is something that we should all have and have explicitly and be asked about and honor and push ourselves towards.

So, I don't know, is this a different idea than break a leg?

Amit: I think it builds on it, but it's, it's a whole second thing you love.

Michael: I don't know. How do you feel about that, by the way? Like, do you talk to your friends about their dreams? [00:12:30] No. Don't you think you should? Yes. Yeah. And don't you want to also be asked about yours?

Amit: Absolutely. Not really, because I don't know. I don't know.

Michael: Okay. But is it terrible? But it terrible, terrible future

Amit: tripper on myself.

Michael: Alright. I'm not just talking about future trip and though I'm talking about like healthy fantasy. Okay. Yeah. And I don't wanna do this now, but as soon as this recording's done, we're gonna have a conversation about this.

Okay. It's not that dreams have to come true, but I think that they have to exist, right? Oh, absolutely. That's my point. It's [00:13:00] not about harnessing and, and bringing things to reality. It's just about allowing fantasy of you and future you to exist in a healthy part of our mind.

Amit: Yeah. And I, I think the words dream and fantasy are very powerful and they take us to like very far off places.

Yeah. But what you are hinting at is to have a dream that is still attainable Yes. Within the, the confines of your own life that, that you have created and that you have led.

Michael: And I think we need to hold open possibilities for ourselves of career pivots, of relationship [00:13:30] transitions, of geographical moves, of taking up a new sport, of taking up a new art.

It can be small. I just think the dreams matter more than we realize. If there's one thing I love about Patrick Swayze, it's that he really holds that idea near and dear to his heart throughout his life, including through the end. Yeah. Right. And we'll get more into that. So that's my thing, number two.

Amit: Okay. Number three. Buddy, buddy Swayze. Uh, so I definitely didn't know this. Yeah. But hardly anyone close to him called him Patrick, including his wife. He, yeah, she called him Buddy. His [00:14:00] yearbook photo in high school says Buddy Swayze. Uh, so it's one of those like kind of old Texas things. I don't know how big this happens outside of the south and so forth of people getting nicknamed buddy.

It was also his father's nickname. You have a good friend named Buddy, don't you? I do have a good friend named Buddy. Yeah. You talked about it before. Yeah.

Michael: Shout out to

Amit: Buddy. Yeah. And so it was, it was his father's nickname, his older sister kind of gave it to Patrick Mm-Hmm. When he was pretty much a baby.

And then it just stuck. And then, you [00:14:30] know, in terms of Lisa, his wife, up to the end, she's like, I'm married to buddy. So why do you love that? Exactly? Is it that friendliness of the nickname? It is a friendliness. It's kind of, uh, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy in a certain way. Like, yeah, you rarely meet a bad.

Buddy. Yeah. You know, and it kind of speaks to a sweetness. I think there's character formation that actually happens that in all names you sort of grow into your name. We talked about this in Johnny Cash. Yeah. So I like that. I like that he kind of grew to be a buddy, you know, a really, a really

Michael: warm guy.

[00:15:00] I love that. I don't think I'm gonna have any more kids, but if I do, if I adopt, I think I'm gonna consider this as a nickname.

Amit: Okay. Good pet name too, you know.

Michael: Great pet name. All right. My thing number four. Uh, born to Fly. Born to Fly. Born to Fly. Sounds

Amit: like a song. Is that a song?

Michael: Uh, learning to Fly is a Tom Petty song, Florida Man.

Our episode on Tom Petty, check it out. So there's sort of two things here. One is that he was a pilot. This is sort of onto the next dream. There comes a point where he is sort of not getting the excitement and validation from the Hollywood experience [00:15:30] that like so many other people who make it. Talk about, and he and his wife Lisa, decided to become pilots.

There's actually a sort of insane story about an emergency landing where he probably experienced hypoxia. He has this like insane emergency landing. He, he like loses consciousness and wakes up at low altitude and manages to land a plane. He barely survives. It's a near death experience. The other thing is.

How into skydiving he got on the set of point break, had never been skydiving before, but he [00:16:00] got so into it that he was waking up at four in the morning every morning and going skydiving to the point where the, uh, people who insure Hollywood actors sent him a cease and desist letter. Like, we cannot have you jumping out of planes anymore, Patrick, because you need to finish this goddamn movie and you're worth too much money.

I, I just got back from a trip. From Disney World with my wife, there's a avatar experience where you get to sort of fly. Allison walked out of that ride and said, I was born to fly.

Amit: [00:16:30] Oh, goodness.

Michael: Yeah, that's what I said. You did a very good Alison impression. Thank you. Yeah, she said it exactly. I like that she's, and not just one time.

This has come up a few times at dinners. Like I, Michael, I really think I'm bored to fly, but I think it speaks to the dreamer thing in him that he is. Wanting to fly, do impossible things. I understand that impulse. I wish I had wings. I wish I could fly. And you know, if I had access to a plane that would take me up for skydiving every morning at 4:00 AM on the set of [00:17:00] a Hollywood movie with Keanu Reeves, I think I'd be like, you know what, let's do this again.

Amit: Yes.

Michael: So that's my thing. Number four, I.

Amit: Okay. I dig it. Number five. She's like the wind. Were you gonna bring this up? No. Well, it's some point. Yes. Okay. It's such good trivia. Yes, it is. It is, is. But it also speaks to something deeper that I will get to. So you're talking

Michael: about the song from Dirty Dancing?

She's like the wind that Patrick Swayze wrote. Anne

Amit: sang.[00:17:30]

Yes. That's

Michael: very unknown because it was a huge, huge song. It is the second most popular song on that album.

Amit: Correct. And reached top 10 in the billboard. It's a mind blowing thing that Patrick Swayze. Wrote and sang that song, and I did not know that before doing the research for this episode. You know what's funny?

It's, I have these a few friends that it's like one of their favorite trivia facts and there was a text message completely unrelated to Famous and Gravy a couple of months ago. Yeah. [00:18:00] That a friend just texted our group Chatty's like, Hey, I just remembered Patrick Swayze sang. She's like.

Michael: Like randomly chimed in apropos of nothing.

Amit: Yeah, so the song has some history. He originally wrote it for a different movie, like back in 84. Right. He shopped it to be in Youngblood, the hockey movie that he was in in like 86. Yeah. Eventually the Dirty Dancing people liked it and picked up on it, but what I love about it is, man, it's so hard to pin this guy down.

I mean, the guy, they can do way too much and that is a good song. [00:18:30] I Okay that I disagree with what? I think it's yacht rock man. I hate that that yacht, rock and good are not mutually exclusive. I'll just say I don't care for it because he had a mullet at the time.

Michael: No, I just don't care for it. It's corny, it's cheesy that Patrick Swayze is kind of corny.

It's being to you

Amit: is that

Michael: cheesy is okay. Uh, I think that's gonna be the conversation we have throughout this episode. I find Patrick Swayze, I have warmed to him as I've gotten ready for this episode. I find

Amit: him. You cannot not. The more you learn him,

Michael: I agree. He wins you over. I also find [00:19:00] him still very cheesy.

That's fine. Yeah. He would love that duality. And I have a tolerance for cheese that only goes so far.

Amit: Yeah.

Michael: And it, it ends before she's like the wind. Okay. I like the song. Okay.

Amit: Uh, so I love it. I love it as part of the, you can't pin the guy down. I love the multi talent of it, and frankly, I just love the surprise.

Michael: Yeah. Okay. I can sign off on it. All right, let's recap. Number one. You said brink a leg. Number two, I said onto the next Dream Number three. You said buddy. [00:19:30] Number four. I went with born to fly and number five. She's like, she's like the win. She's like the win. So that's in my head. Okay. Exactly,

Amit: exactly. It's not anything in dirty dancing is gonna is in your head.

Yeah. Fucking eye. It doesn't go. It doesn't come out.

Michael: Alright. Category three, one love. In this category, we each choose one word or phrase that characterizes their loving relationships. Before we select our word or phrase, though, we will review the family life data. One marriage, Lisa [00:20:00] Ami. They were married in 1975 to 2009.

Patrick was 22. She was 18 when they got married. They met when he was 18 and she was 14 because she was a dancer. So a little creepy. You know, little, I don't,

Amit: but it's not clear that they were like romantically involved until she was Yeah, but they were closer. Yeah.

Michael: Just a little and just a little a smidge inappropriate, but I don't know.

We're right in that zone. Little, anyway, the marriage last 35 ish years, as you said, she was the inspiration for, she's like the wind. They did [00:20:30] not have children by the time they decided that they wanted to try. She had a miscarriage three months in. To a pregnancy, it sounded devastating. They talked about adoption.

They didn't ever go through with it, and Patrick mentions it as like the big regret in his life. I think the other relevant info here is that his mother, who we've made reference to, super-duper strict lady, there's even sort of allegations of abuse. Yes. Patrick was the [00:21:00] oldest boy. He had an older sister.

Yeah.

Amit: Weird right too, that like it's the mother accused of physical abuse. Possibly not. Yeah. Not what you typically expect of the father being.

Michael: Yeah. Right. And you know, he had a lot of love for his dad. There's a very famous moment where he breaks down in a Barbara Walters interview when she asked about his father.

Archival: Yeah, he caught me off guard. I'm sorry. That's alright. Uh uh, my dad and my manager, Bobman, the two most important men in my life are dead. And I made it after my father died. My [00:21:30] passion that, that I was gonna make that man proud of me till I die.

Michael: I mean, I think he, he very much loves his mother, but I do think like she pushed this guy from a young age and sometimes

Amit: literally pushed Yes,

Michael: yes.

Yeah,

Amit: exactly. Alright, what did you have for a word or phrase here? The phrase I went with was unconditional affection. There's a few asterisks there, but here's why I arrived at it. So you talked about the mother. There's one story sometime around when Patrick was 18, I think this must have been pre Legg breaking, [00:22:00] that she was scolding him for something and had like him pinned against the wall.

Yeah. We're not like accusing of, of punching or anything, but his father comes down and sees what's happening. Yeah. And says, if you don't get your hands off my son, I will divorce you. And so here's a guy that's like experiencing affection intermittently, I think Confusing amount of affection. Yeah. Right, because you're, you're getting love, but you're also getting like severely punished and he goes on and gets married very young, who ends up being a huge heartthrob, very weird for a huge [00:22:30] heartthrob to, it's be married at such a young age and be off the market for his entire life.

Yeah. It's an unusual story

Michael: for Hollywood,

Amit: right? Yeah. And so I think what he sought was unconditional affection, which he got largely from Lisa, from what I saw. Like they, they shared it. I shouldn't say he got it. Yeah. They shared it. But I think that's the type of loving person he is, is to try to seek unconditional affection.

Certainly receive it and try his best to give it back. Yeah. [00:23:00] I think he failed at some of the latter at times when he was struggling with alcoholism. Yeah. They came to reckon with it. But I think that is his story of love.

Michael: I like it. I think that there's a lot of truth in it. I don't know, uh, but it'd be interesting to see how you respond to what I wrote.

I wrote Fragile Fairytale. Okay. So one thing that comes out in the book that they wrote together is that he's a really sensitive. Yes, he's tough in a lot of ways. He can endure a tremendous amount of [00:23:30] physical pain, but he talks about how there's this idea of insecurity that exists for a lot of their marriage where he is not sure if she loves him as much as he loves her, and that doubt manifests at different times.

He's also strikes me as somebody with a massive ego. I mean, obviously there's a massive ego here and he is a a-list movie star for at least a period of time. But as they wrote, the story of themselves, which is [00:24:00] more grumbles is called The Time of my life. I mean, I do think that there is a complicated marriage, a lot of love, but there is a fragility to it, and there's sort of a fragility to him overall and.

I don't know. I'm sort of like trying to put it all together, being so driven, being pushed to be a great dancer and eventually a great athlete, and then eventually becoming a movie star and having this very, very strong personality mother with a wife and a troubled marriage. And [00:24:30] you mentioned the alcoholism.

I mean, you feel like there's something that could all fall apart. There's like glass under the surface with a lot of his interpersonal relationships.

Amit: Yeah, I mean, there's a huge sensitivity. Yes. Right to the man, which I think leads to the fragility. And I think our two things aren't contradictory. No, I don't think so either.

I think the fragility requires unconditional affection. Yeah. And that's why he sought it out. Yeah. You know, because things are so fragile for somebody who's that proud. And I also wanna say, I tied this into the mother, but we don't know everything. [00:25:00] Right. Yeah. And there's certainly complications with the father.

Michael: There's even, and there's also like conspiracy theory stuff there about the marriage that I don't wanna go down this rabbit hole.

Amit: Yeah.

Michael: Yeah. But I, I don't know how much credence to give any of that stuff, so I'm sort of just going on what came from the horse's mouth.

Amit: Yeah. I don't think it's our territory.

Michael: Yeah. But there, there's a lot we don't know.

Amit: Yeah, but I, I just wanted to say that like the father was also had drinking problems. Yes. Right. And so by and large, like he had a great upbringing. He has held a ton of love for his parents [00:25:30] there. These, that's complications. I think he, he got the shit beat

Michael: out of him a lot though.

I mean, and it should go like not owned by

Amit: him

Michael: or by other kids. Well by other kids. Yeah. Because he was, there's a story in his book

Amit: freaking ballet

Michael: dancer. Yeah, exactly. In Texas in the sixties. Right. And there's a story about him getting jumped by five guys having to go to the hospital and his dad.

Taking him, pulling the football coach out and getting those five guys, and Patrick fights him one by one in the book. He claims to beat 'em all one by one. Yeah. I mean he, he is actually tough and deserves credit for that. His dad put him [00:26:00] in kickboxing so he could defend himself or in martial arts.

Amit: There was another story I liked when he was smaller that he had like his dancing stuff and his violin with him and these kids were picking on him.

Yeah. And so he like sweeps them with the back of their leg and like takes 'em to the ground. Yeah. And this is when he is like 10, 11 years old.

Michael: Yeah. I mean, so. I also see a lot of. Self-doubt, and I think some of that is instilled by his upbringing.

Amit: Yeah, self-doubt leads to fragility and sensitivity and requires unconditional affection.

I think it's all the same story path. I think

Michael: that's a good [00:26:30] summary. Okay. Category four, net worth. In this category, Amman and I will write down our. Best guess ahead of time and look at the net worth number in real time. The host, whether it's Amad or me, closest to the actual number, will explain their reasoning.

Finally, we will place this person on the famous eng gravy net worth leaderboard. Amit Kippur wrote down 30 million. Michael Osborne

Amit: also wrote down 30 million. How about

Michael: that? Wow. Okay. The actual net worth of Patrick Swayze is [00:27:00] 40 million

Amit: at

Michael: the

Amit: time of his

Michael: death. Okay, so we're not far off. We're not far off.

You Explain your thinking here.

Amit: Yeah. So he had two major, major hits. Yeah. Right. And Ghost, which was a $500 million movie. Dirty Dancing was a 200 plus million dollars movie. Yeah. Point Break was near a hundred, so you have $800 million there. So just, if I can imagine the payday that came at least. After dirty dancing was pretty big and those are probably, you know, 10 plus million dollar roles and plus whatever you're getting for [00:27:30] appearances and so forth.

Michael: Actually, let me comment on that 'cause I watched an interview with Jennifer Gray, his co-star in dirty dancing. She got paid something like 50,000 for dirty dancing. I think by that point Patrick had established himself as the more bankable star. Yes. So like dirty dancing was made on a shoestring. It's like $2 million.

I mean that, that's one of those like runaway hits. It was supposed

Amit: to be based more or less like a one week thing made for tv. Forget.

Michael: Yeah. So he begins to demonstrate his market value in Hollywood, you know, with dirty dancing. And he fought like [00:28:00] hell to get cast and ghost. Yeah. By the way. Ghost directed by Jerry Zucker of Zucker Brothers fame.

Same guy who like he and his brother did airplane. A naked gun. Yeah. So

Amit: weird,

Michael: right? And, and it, so Patrick kind of makes the argument to him, Hey look, if you can genre hop, so can I. So please cast me in ghost. But he had to fight like Harrison Ford and. Well, you know, a, a whole bunch of Hollywood. Totally.

Amit: So lemme get back to my reasoning. So he was parts of these major blockbusters, 30 million is not that much for a star as big as he was at the time, but he also didn't [00:28:30] do much in between. Right. You know, he did in, in the nineties after these huge hits of ghost and so forth. That's back when he sort of get into alcoholism and retreated a little bit.

Michael: Yeah. He winds up gonna rehab in the mid nineties.

Amit: Yeah. Doing small roles, doing a little bit of tv, really not doing a lot of comeback until like. Two Wong Fu.

Michael: Yeah. So, okay. First of all, I think he's a movie star, not an actor, and I think he would hate to hear that. Yeah. I think he wanted to prove himself as an actor.

He's just not somebody who transforms for me. Right. I mean, [00:29:00] even like Bodhi and Point Break, I still kind of see that, you know, Jed and Red Dawn there. Right. I think he's incredibly gifted. He's poetically athletic. Yeah. But he's always kind of the same guy.

Amit: Yeah.

Michael: For me, I, I like, he doesn't disappear. You know what I mean?

He is not Philip Seymour Hoffman. He is not Gary Oldman.

Amit: Maybe that's actually not so irrelevant to the net worth.

Michael: Well, that's my point is that I think he peaks and then I think those roles begin to run dry. Like he, he's hot shit for eight years or so. There between [00:29:30] roughly outsiders to two Wong Fu. Yes.

And then he's kind of spat out a little bit by the Hollywood machine.

Amit: Yeah. But there's other circumstances and there's some self choice. In the matter too. Like he just, well, that's what I

Michael: can't discern. That's what I can't figure out is, is that self choice or is that revisionist history? Are you telling yourself, I'm stepping away, or are you stepping away because nobody's knocking?

Amit: Hard to tell. But he did seem really, really content in his ranch life. Even at peak of Hollywood stardom. He chose to be on the ranch. Yeah, and he was not as much

Michael: as possible. I mean, we've, we've alluded to his alcoholism, but he was [00:30:00] drinking alone. He was not a party guy. I think he had friendships to some extent, but he was like older than that.

Generation of actors that were in the Brat Pack Plus. Correct. And he's married and has been through a different thing. By the time all of those actors become hot in the mid eighties.

Amit: Yeah. So it's for somebody of his stardom, it's pretty low. But I like that we both kind of reasoned at it the same way. I mean, if you look at other actors that we've done, Roger Moore had $110 million.

As James Bond, [00:30:30] not a bad, like sort of parallel equivalent in terms of Action Star.

Michael: That's interesting. Yeah. Where does this place him on the famous Eng Gravy leaderboard? Well,

Amit: I wanted to throw in one more. James Delini was at 70 million, and this is largely just a, a TV star of HBO. But

Michael: isn't this about leverage though?

I mean, that's my point with dirty Dancing is that by the time he's up for ghost. If he gets that role, he can negotiate for a shit ton of money because look at how well Dirty Dancing performed. He can do that with point break as well. He has a tremendous amount of negotiation power for a [00:31:00] period of time.

Archival: Yes.

Michael: And then he doesn't, it fades. Right. And that, that was sort of the question that I think you and I were both. Thinking through here is when that negotiation power fades in the mid nineties and, and he dies almost 15 years later. Like where does that leave him at the end?

Amit: And he's not part of a franchise, right?

Right. He's not like Tom Cruise, although they were together in the Outsiders. He doesn't have his mission Impossible kind of equivalent.

Michael: Right. And I think like Gandalf Fanny, you know, it actually makes sense when you stop and think about how. Every subsequent season of the Sopranos becomes more and more valuable to [00:31:30] HBO.

He gets more and more leverage

Amit: and, and the guy liked to make some big spends too. Yes. Like he bought a DeLorean in 1982 after like an insignificant roll that he got. You know, he has these ranchers. He raised, he's like, Russ

Michael: Hanman with the wings. 'cause yes,

Amit: he raised really expensive horses.

Michael: Yeah. Well, I, I, I'll give him credit for this too.

I would actually say he took risks. I think he over states how big the risks were, but he is hopping between action movies to rom-coms to like [00:32:00] two. Wong Fu was a risk in the early nineties and it a only performed so well, and even that movie City of God that came right after Ghost. Yeah, I mean he was taking on to some extent.

Risky roles. Mm-Hmm. And he was trying to avoid being typecast. Yeah. I just don't think that that was ever available to him. '

Amit: cause he is a type. Yeah. But he tried. Yeah. So it ties him at number 31 with Shirley Temple. Ah, Shirley Temple Black. Let me be specific, which puts him in the top 45% of Famous and Gravy [00:32:30] episodes.

Yeah. You're gonna like Woody sandwich between. Philip Seymour Hoffman, who died with 35 million. Okay. And Bill Paxton, who died, uh, with 25 million his next of Kin CoStar? Yes. And fellow Texan. Yeah. Hey everyone, it's Amit. I'm jumping into the episode quickly with a correction. During the recording, I got so caught up at the excitement that Michael and I actually had the same net worth guess that I placed Mr.

Patrick Swayze incorrectly on the net worth leaderboard with his net worth at 40 million. He's actually in a multi-way, tie for [00:33:00] 24th place, putting him squarely in the top third of all of our biographies, he's tied with Nora Efrin, who also had 40 million and sits just below Leonard Nimoy at 45 million and just above.

Philip Seymour Hoffman at 35 million. Sorry about that. Now back to the show.

Michael: Category Five Little Lebowski Urban Achievers.

Archival: They're the little Lebowski, urban achievers. Said, yeah, the achievers, yes, and proud. We are of all of them.

Michael: In this category, we choose a trophy and award, a cameo, an [00:33:30] impersonation, or any other form of a hat tip that we want to bring into the conversation.

I went Captain obvious here.

Amit: You're, you're, you're bursting. Can I, well, you're bursting to, to talk about

Michael: it. Uh, the Sarah Night Lives skit with Chris Farley, the Chippendale skit. The Chippendale skit where Patrick Swayze as Adrian and Chris Farley as Barney are up against each other in the finals Chippendale competition to land a spot.

Archival: Uh, excuse me. Can I, can I, can I make a point?

Michael: Sure.

Archival: You know, I, I just wanna [00:34:00] say that this guy. He is one hell of a dancer, you know, and he has got the sexiest moves I have ever seen. And if you're really serious about going with me, you know, it could only be because his body is so bad. Thanks, man. Sure.

Michael: In some ways, the skit has not aged all that well.

You know, it's decidedly not body positive. And some people think like, I don't know, Chris Rock was making the case that Chris Farley was, you know, bullied. Didn't do it. Well. It was only Chris

Amit: Farley's fourth, SNL. Appearance Was it that early on? It was that early [00:34:30] on and this was his breakthrough. Yeah, this was like, and so there are, there's some arguments we made that like this kind of made Chris Farley like more kind of play on body humor.

Michael: Right. I'm sympathetic to those criticisms. However, I wanna draw the attention to Patrick Swayze's role in this. Yeah, I agree. He nails it. I'm not sure anybody else could have. Played opposite Chris Farley as a potential Chippendales candidate on Saturday Night Live. Maybe could make a case for John Travolta a few years before, [00:35:00] but by this point Travolta's looking a little bigger and not quite as graceful.

And he's really the only other actor I can think of who's got similar dancing acumen. Part of me watches this skit now and thinks Patrick Swayze should have been a chip and dance. Exactly. Like this is actually this man's destiny.

Amit: I think what was great about it is how well Patrick Swayze played nervous.

Yeah. You know, that he's just like really nervous. He's gonna lose to Chris Farley and there's several points, oh, Jordan gonna, that he like. Patrick [00:35:30] Swayze loses his kind of sequence. Yeah. And he looks to see what Chris Farley is doing and starts imitating him. But he just like, he plays this like nervous little child really well.

Which is just makes it so funny.

Michael: He sells the bet. So that's my little Aki Urban achiever. What do

Amit: you

Michael: got?

Amit: Okay. Uh, mine's quite different. So Patrick Swayze never won an Academy Award. He never even won a Golden Globe. He had three but three nominations. Yeah. Yeah. For, for a Golden Globe and movies that he's been in were nominated for best picture, including Ghost.

Yeah. It did not win. However, [00:36:00] Whoopi Goldberg did win. Best supporting actress for it.

Michael: Yeah.

Amit: So my little Bobowski Irvin achiever is Whoopi Goldberg, thanking Patrick Swayze in her acceptance speech.

Archival (2): I had to thank Patrick Swayze, who's a standup guy, and went to them and said, I wanna do it with her.

Amit: And the backstory of this is Patrick Swayze was cast in ghost

Michael: after a battle to get the part.

Yeah, he really wanted it. Yeah, he really wanted it. Dean Moore had been cast, I think. Yes. And he [00:36:30] went to great lengths to sell himself. He was hungry for this role. Exactly. He had hungry as well. Done. Well done.

Amit: Go on. So, uh, he really wanted Whoopi Goldberg in the part, and she was a little tentative, and the directors were a little

Michael: tentative.

Actually, my, the story I read was that. She had been passed over, like they were thinking about Oprah and I think she was shooting the Color Purple or somewhere else in Alabama. And they had to fly to her when they were like, we'd like to consider it. At this point, she pulls a power move like, you come to me if you really want me.

Amit: And Patrick [00:37:00] Swayze himself was part of that flight of that. That's right. Envoy

Michael: Jerry Zucker and, and Patrick Swayze.

Amit: Yeah. And so he really convinced. Her to do it, and he convinced the studio to accept her. He just had this intuition that Whoopi is right for this part.

Michael: She's the most re watchable part of that movie.

I think you watch it now and Whoopi Goldberg's Comic Relief is what makes that

Amit: movie more watchable. Yeah, and so Whoopi Goldberg is not in that movie without Patrick Swayze. Yeah. She does not win this Academy Award without Patrick Swayze. In her acceptance speech, she says, I have to thank [00:37:30] Patrick Swayze, who is a standup guy, and went to them and said, I want to do this film with her.

Yeah. Like that's almost better than winning the award. Yeah. Isn't it just knowing that like you're, you're of service to somebody else that won the award.

Michael: Yeah. It's funny 'cause Oscar acceptance speeches are always so truncated and awkward to me. But when you learn that backstory, that makes that moment really noteworthy and really like, almost better.

And he, he tolds the story in his book about watching this and [00:38:00] having no idea that she was gonna think and he was feeling floored. Yeah. So I think it just his heart. Yeah. Shall we move on? Let's move on. All right. Category six words to live by. In this category, we choose a quote. These are either words that came out of this person's mouth or was said about them that resonated in a certain way.

Amit: I can go, go ahead. Okay. Did you ever watch Roadhouse? Oh yeah. Like Roadhouse was sort of made for, for kind of teenagers at the time it came up. Yeah.

Michael: Like between 12 and 14-year-old boys. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, because it's it's, it has [00:38:30] no plot. Yeah. It's

Amit: a 1989 movie. Patrick Swayze essentially goes to work at this.

Bar to, to, he's a bouncer change to violence. He's, he's a bouncer, but he's kind of more than that. He is just like a fixer for all the violence in the town. Yeah. So there's a scene in there that he goes to the doctor after one of the fights to get all these shards of glass and everything removed from his body and the doctor.

Mm-Hmm. Played by Kelly Lynch, uh, asks him, uh, have you ever won a fight? And Patrick Swayze, in my words to live by says nobody wins a [00:39:00] fight. Oh. And Oh, that's good. I thought you were going with pain. Don't hurt. Nope. I'm going with nobody Wins a fight. I like that. And I like it too because it's uh, it's very Patrick Swayze.

Yeah. Right. It's a very ballet athletic term for somebody who fighting is dancing. Yeah. To him. Right. Fighting is, is a form to, we think, to resolve conflict. I don't think in Patrick Swayze's world it is at all. This is a guy that dabbled in Buddhism, his. Particular sect of Buddhism was very much [00:39:30] about self happiness through peace.

In others. Bodhi who he played in Point Break is named after Bodhi Safa. I didn't realize that. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. And so, you know, he's, he's a peaceful guy who knows how to fight. Yeah. I like that acknowledgement of the point of fighting as he's talking about fighting. Nobody wins. It's an endless dance, but it also just.

It never resolves. Yeah. Hmm. And that's really easy to forget. And I'm not just talking necessarily at this point about, you know, fist fighting in a roadhouse. It's just [00:40:00] other fighting in general. Nobody really wins you. You just do it with respect.

Michael: Is this an argument for pacifism?

Amit: No, I don't think so. I think it's an argument for fighting as a martial artist, which is what Patrick Swayze learned that yes, it can be born out of aggression, born out of a disagreement, but if it's not done with respect for each other, it's never gonna resolve.

And that's. True of arguments and so forth.

Michael: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Is this, does this idea extend beyond [00:40:30] physical fights?

Amit: Uh, yeah. I think it extends more beyond physical fights. Yeah. To me it's more metaphorical than it is actually literal applying to roadhouse style fights. Yeah. But to me it's a very Patrick Swayze.

Term in the way that not only he was trained, but really how he lived his life.

Michael: I like it as you've been talking more, I, I'm sort of more and more bought in on this idea. No, I am good with it. Okay. Before I give you mine, I'm gonna give you what I didn't go with. Okay. 'cause the Patrick Swayze one-liners, when you actually put 'em all together, are pretty [00:41:00] extraordinary.

Of course, dirty dancing, nobody puts baby in a corner. Yes, he hated that line, but did agree that it worked. Point break fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true. Great line. I forgot about this one ghost, at the very end when he is actually ascending to the heavens, the love inside, you take it with you.

Archival: Yes.

Michael: That's a beautiful idea. Yeah, that's a great line In a movie. And it kind of sums it all up. Roadhouse pain don't hurt, and then there's at least two from Red Dawn. Come on, we're all gonna die. Die [00:41:30] standing up and get up here and piss in The radiator has always been one of my favorites. It's when the car breaks down and they don't have any water in the radiator.

And he says, get up here and piss in the radiator. Quick shout out to a guy who's become a fan of the show. Uh, who I met on Threads. Derek Cameron. This guy is. Always looking for an opportunity to post about Red Dawn. It's one of my favorite accounts to follow just because you never know when he's gonna make Red Dawn relevant to whatever the news of the day may be.

Alright. Mike ORs lived by, nobody puts Patrick's pancreas in the [00:42:00] corner. Did he actually said that. He actually said that. Okay. He knew that this line nobody puts baby in a corner was ridiculed. And when he got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, he said nobody puts Patrick's pancreas in the corner. You know, my sister is a cancer survivor.

She had a non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in her late twenties. I was a teenager when she was diagnosed. That was sort of the first time I learned anything about cancer and I only learned so much. I was a self-obsessed teenager and whatever, but one thing that my parents and her and everybody was sort of communicating is how [00:42:30] important it is to believe you're gonna beat it.

That's really hard. And it's, it's, it's, it's a weird idea that exists in medicine that like we need your mentality to be there. Hope is actually. From what we can tell, it matters. And we have no pill for hope. We have no treatment for hope. You just gotta find it. He loses the battle, obviously, to pancreatic cancer, but he fought it for 20 months, way longer than anybody thought he was gonna make it, right.

Nobody puts Patrick's pancreas in the corner. Good for you, man.

Amit: [00:43:00] Yeah, it's good. And that, you know, it really ties back to my thing number one I loved about him. And you could say at that age of 18, it's like nobody puts Patrick's leg in a corner.

Michael: A hundred percent. Okay. Category seven, man in the mirror.

This category is fairly simple. Did this person like their reflection? Yes or no? This is not about beauty. This is rather a question of self-confidence versus self-judgment.

Amit: I like how this is phrased about self-confidence versus self-judgment. 'cause I think they're very different here. And Patrick Swayze.

Amen. Self-confidence. Fantastic. Yes. Right. You've, you [00:43:30] hit, you hint at it earlier with ego and pride. Yep. And why not the guy's a stud. He's great looking. He has every talent on earth. Yep. Uh, self, his

Michael: body is an

Amit: instrument. Totally self-judgment. A lot of evidence of it.

Michael: Tons of evidence of it. We've alluded a few times to alcoholism.

I think we should talk about what we do and do not know. Okay. He did go into rehab in the nineties. The documentary after his death, Lisa, his widow, talks about how the truth is he never totally gave it up, and she moved out for a year in the mid [00:44:00] two thousands, they reconciled and even renewed their vows and fell in love again, but moved out for a whole year and it sounds like she was raising the issue of his drinking over and over again.

And it looks like self abuse. Born of self-judgment

Amit: and well also imitating habits. I think perhaps that he was around, have

Michael: no question about it. I, I think actually just one more thing on Lisa, I do think she makes the point that she's really grateful that they reconciled and renewed their vows before he got his [00:44:30] diagnosis.

'cause. Her ability to stand with him as he's fighting cancer would have, in her mind, she sort of says, as much would've felt insincere had they not reconciled. Yeah, yeah. But back to the man in the mirror, I think, I wonder if you and I are kind of trending in the same direction here.

Amit: I, I don't really know where you're going.

I mean, I think he's a guy that, that was very proud of himself, but was hard on himself.

Michael: Yeah. I think he's also self-obsessed. Like she talks about he spent more time in his hair than I did in the eighties. That's great hair. Yeah. [00:45:00] But the point is like that means I'm spending a lot of time in front of the mirror.

I think that there is a correlation between how much time you spend in front of the mirror and negative feelings about your own reflection as time goes on.

Amit: Yeah.

Michael: Right. The less you look in the mirror, probably the more you are at peace with it.

Amit: Yes. I'm, I'm not, that's my temptation. I'm not sure how, how even you and I are on.

This because I, I detected something from all of his interviews and his appearances on Leno or even Conan. Like there's a lot of self-deprecating, there's a lot of humility that I think is [00:45:30] actually born out of, out of good nature and some acceptance.

Archival: Drove a double decker Kaba tro. So, well, what is it? He knows a lot about trucks.

This guy, it's like a boss. I don't know. What was your CB handle back then? Did you have a CB handle? Uh, I, no, you must have had one, but, uh, baby corner, swivel hip, you don't know. Uh uh uh, it probably would've been bud's Big dog.

Michael: Some, but it's got a limit. I mean, he wanted to be taken seriously and I think [00:46:00] it on some level, he just wasn't.

I think that's kind of who he is.

Amit: Yeah,

Michael: I mean I, I think that there is a cheesy, corny quality to him. There's a golden boy quality that it's a little hard to get past. There are some people who are just a little too fricking perfect, and he's kind of in that category at the same time. Is intensely self competitive?

Amit: Yeah, perfection is a curse.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. And I, so I, I think on balance I went with, he did not care for his reflection.

Amit: Yeah. So we're [00:46:30] a house divided here because I'm going Yes. Okay. And it's, it's not a super high. Yes. But I just see a little more acceptance than you do. And I see a guy that, that really found a way to love life and do everything you wanted

Michael: to.

I see. Acceptance, but I also see. Him having some awareness that his own pride and his own God-given beauty is actually interfering with his ability to transcend that. And it's ultimately a hindrance, like it goes back and forth. Yes. But yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm [00:47:00] kind of right there with you. I'm going No, you're going.

Yes. But I think we actually have very similar conclusions. Yep. All right. Category eight coffee cocktail cannabis. This is where we ask which one would we most want to do with our dead celebrity. This may be a question of what drug sounds like. The most fun to partake with this person or another philosophy is that a particular kind of drug might allow access to a part of them that we are most curious about.

Amit: Would you go here? I run cocktail specifically beer. Okay. Always a little weird choice with somebody that struggled with alcoholism like Patrick Swayze [00:47:30] did. Yeah. I don't know. He's got such, he does have this good old boy side to him that the Texas never left him. Yeah. You know, he also has this big brother quality.

Yeah. Which was in real life. You know, he was a big brother. Played it a lot in movies, starting with the Outsiders and Red Dawn. Yeah. And Red Dawn. Yeah. Um, so he is got this older brother quality too. And to me it's just, there's, there's kind of a bit of a mentoring hang there. 'cause he also does have a very interesting view on life.

You know in that there is kind of a, what is your next [00:48:00] dream? Sees a dream. Dreams are attainable. There is kind of this cheerleading that he has this bring you up and so this is how I envisioned. I've got a very clear image. Actually, I'll throw this back to you. Do you remember sin after we became friends?

I think we went to nap. Or once with my girlfriend and your wife? Yeah. Uh, different people. Yes. Um, indeed. Yes. And uh, this is a whole other podcast I brought baseball gloves. Uh, I do have a memory of that just 'cause I kind of enjoy when it's hot outside, just throwing the [00:48:30] baseball back and forth. Yeah.

And you and I did that. I don't know if you remember when the girls like, went to some winery, we're like, this does ring a bell. We're just gonna hang out in this field and throw the baseball. I do remember this

Michael: now.

Amit: Yeah. Yeah. I remember this. And we might have even bought a little beer. Yeah, probably. We probably like bought like Bud Light in Napa.

Which I don't know how big of a scene that is. So

Michael: is this the scene you're envisioning with Patrick Swayze? This the, let's throw a football or a baseball or something like that. Let's, let's throw a baseball maybe on his

Amit: ranch and just chat. Yeah. You know, and I, I like his worldview. Yeah, I wanna hear that.

I think he's got some big brother ness [00:49:00] to offer in terms of advice. I mean, I, I have a big brother. I have a great big brother. Yeah. I just wouldn't mind also getting a little bit of that Patrick Swayze advice on top of it, that sort of good old boy charm.

Michael: Hmm. Okay. So I went pot as you were talking, I was sort of a, a, an image emerged in my mind.

I'd like to go for a hike on his ranch in New Mexico. I'd like to smoke a joint and go for a walk in the woods. Okay. And I'd like to talk about dance. Hmm. I am not a fan of dance, not. Really kind of at all

Amit: [00:49:30] doing it. Watching it nothing.

Michael: Watching it in particular doing it. I kind of, you know, at the right concert, I'll get into it and I'll, I'll move around.

Years ago, my folks took me to the opera. I didn't think I was gonna like the opera. I love the opera. I'm super into the opera. I didn't think I'd be into the symphony. Somebody took me to the symphony a few years back. I really enjoyed the symphony. Every time I've gone to the ballet, I can't stand it. I get so bored and I don't know why.

I feel like I'm missing something and I need it [00:50:00] Explained to me, he talks about dance as being this pure form of communication and I kind of am ready to buy into that idea that there is something being communicated with the body non-verbally that is compelling and interesting. I need somebody to sit down or.

Go on a walk and explain this to me a little bit. Yes. And I think Patrick Swayze would be a good guy for that.

Amit: I think he would explain it very well.

Michael: Yeah, I kind of feel like if we're in Northern New Mexico, which is very much his spiritual home and to some extent mine, he even [00:50:30] had his ashes spread there.

'cause I love trail talk. I really like conversations when you go for a hike with somebody and I kind of feel like that'd be a setting where I could open my mind just enough and that we could climb a mountain in the high desert and I'd learn something about dance. Yeah, because I wanna stay open to it.

Yes. I'm just, I'm not there with

Amit: it. That's key to stay open to it. I'm mean I'm quite anti-D dance when it comes to like dancing in a club or bar, like this sort of forced dancing. However, I acknowledged now the importance of it and actually the value of it. You know, there is something [00:51:00] about letting.

Something else move through your body to kind of dictate the motions for it. There, there is scientific evidence of the release that it provides, but I think in Patrick Swayze's both his, his experience of of doing highly choreographed dance down to classical ballet and also just his ability, Dan Improv dance.

Yeah, I think he'll have a lot to teach you once you come down from that high. Let me know.

Michael: I will. All right. Category nine, final category. The VanDerBeek named after James VanDerBeek, who famously said in varsity Blues, I don't

Archival: want your [00:51:30] life.

Michael: In that varsity blue scene, James makes a judgment that he does not want a certain kind of life.

So here Ahed and I will form a rebuttal to James VanDerBeek and anyone skeptical of how Patrick Swayze lived. But let's start with some of the counter arguments. The biggest one is the young death, I think. Or one of the bigger ones. Sure. Un undoubtedly. And I do wanna say, 'cause we really haven't talked about it, his career did seem to maybe be going in an interesting direction.

I haven't watched this TV show he did The Beast, but it looks kind of good. [00:52:00]

Amit: Yeah.

Michael: Donny Darko, his appearance there, like he was starting to do, he was getting

Amit: to be a lot more dramatic,

Michael: a little bit more indie, a little bit like he, I could have seen him riding the Prestige TV wave that was in the cards had he lived so.

There's a life cut short here. No question about it.

Amit: Yeah. And there's the type casting, right? I mean, they're essentially between dirty dancing and let's say ghost, you know, that's what, four years? Yeah. Right. That, that was the extent of a lot of this like epitome of Patrick Swayze. It's not that long. Yeah.

You know, it's pretty short live [00:52:30] and it's classic. Like, I don't wanna be famous and I, and get. This truncated over the top spotlight.

Michael: Yeah. Which he was wary of. I mean, we hadn't brought this up yet, but he actually avoided taking roles that had dance and, and as part of it. 'cause he didn't want to be typecast that way.

Yeah. And eventually says yes to dirty dancing and knocks it so out of the park that becomes a teenage heart throughout and kind of never is able to get away from that.

Amit: Yeah. And it literally, that follows a couple of years after him saying, I do not wanna be a teenage heartthrob in rejecting a Columbia Pictures contract.

Michael: Yes. I [00:53:00] mean like there is a kind of fate and destiny and maybe, you know, you made a point in the, I think it was Rodney Dangerfield recently, where you had a point about freedom with age, and I think he was only just beginning to experience some of that. Yeah, yeah. And I think he was looking for that. I mean, you know, destiny is.

Kind of a double-edged sword. Yeah. You know, he was gonna be a movie star, like a-list, bankable movie star up there with whoever you want to put on that list. So much so that he kind of could avoid it. Yeah. Right. [00:53:30] So I don't know that those are some pretty important arguments again. So what's the case for, and

Amit: well, so we, we, we.

Can't dismiss the things that we talked about of the, the self-judgment and the alcoholism. Yeah. Some of the abusive childhood, like there's, I think

Michael: born out of that rigidness of his destiny. Yeah. Right. That the, the inflexibility of where he was going to wind up, or, or, or, so it seems,

Amit: so I'd say the rebuttal.

Why to want his life. To me, the biggest thing is what you said about dreams and what we've talked about is that he ticks all boxes. [00:54:00] Yeah. That he sets his eyes. On something, pursues it and mostly nails it. Yeah. And it's easy to say that for a movie star or somebody that's such like demagogue, like Patrick Swayze, but I think anybody that can do that in one's life, no matter whatever scale they live on is, I mean, that's almost the definition of fulfillment.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's, it's, it's really, really big to have dreams come true, but to also not lose the spirit of. Dreaming onto the next thing [00:54:30] because the realization of the first one or the last one, you know, does leave a void and doesn't Totally. And that and that, that maybe is the process of life. Yeah.

It's not about, you know, this is our whole thing. It's not about the accomplishments. It's not about the actually realizing your dreams. It's about the journey there. And by having a series of them throughout his life, he. Got to do something very exciting that really is symbolic of what we all should want and should be doing in the process of life.

Yeah. I got one other argument I'll make here. Okay. You know, [00:55:00] cancer's so messed up, right? Because your body turns against you. He got everything out of the body. He was given, like, he got to fully inhabit his God-given attributes. He kind of milked it for all it's worth. I mean, if, if I. I don't have strong theories of the afterlife.

I like the idea that you get to take the love with you. You know, if part of what we're doing here on Earth is to try and get the most out of the body that we're given, he got to do that. And while it, it is cut off short, it's not [00:55:30] because of detachment, it's because of inhabitation. You know what I mean?

So I find that actually very enviable. Yeah. To live in your body.

Amit: I, I think in argument four is also the love, you know, the, the romantic love from age 18 until death. Yeah. I think there's a certain depth of love there, which I, I will, I'm not capable of comprehending now, perhaps later on, but there's basically in your entire adult life to be with one person.

I do understand it was rocky at times and there may have been allegations of someone stepping [00:56:00] out. Yeah, unconfirmed, let's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a certain deepness of love throughout to start that young and develop that deep into adulthood, into late fifties, to have that constant and go that deep with somebody.

You, you can speak to it. I'll let you speak. Yeah, let me let lemme speak to it if I can. Yeah. It seems like a pretty damn good thing.

Michael: Uh. Allison and I talk about this because we've been together since we were very young, and when we look at it that way, we almost always land in a place of deep gratitude.

[00:56:30] My favorite adage about marriage is that love is not about staring deeply into each other's eyes. It's about staring forward in the same direction. Yeah, and I feel extraordinarily lucky that I have somebody who's. Been with me this far and it provides a rock in your soul. And he had that, and I'm sure the marriage was rocky and I'm sure they fought, and I'm sure they had disagreements and I'm sure they were pissed off.

And I'm sure that they, there was heartache, certainly around the miscarriage and around some of the life decisions. [00:57:00] Who knows? But it is very clear that at the end of the day, they were each other's.

Amit: Soulmates. Yeah. This looks like something that, that should be a source of gratitude. Yeah. I, I wanna throw one final one in, which is, uh, a phrase from Adam Grant, give and take.

Uh, so he's definitely a giver. You know, this older brother thing that I talked about, as well as the Whoopi Goldberg example, you know, this is a guy that, that gave a lot. Back, you know, he was a man of service. Yeah. But he also took in the right [00:57:30] way. Right. Like, like you said, he had a bit of an ego, but he he took all the adoration.

Yeah. He liked it. Even though he didn't wanna be a teen idol, he, he kind of laughed it up a little bit. Yeah, yeah. You know, he liked the adoration. He sure went

Michael: ways on it. Yeah. He

Amit: liked making fun of himself on Chippendales in that way. Yeah. And there, there was a good balance of give and take.

Michael: I agree with that.

So let's recap a little bit on the Vander beak. Number one, you said, or checking off the dream boxes. Checking off the dream boxes. Number two. I said body inhabitation. Yeah. Number three. Uh, deepness of [00:58:00] love. Yeah. Soulmate, yeah. Yeah. In Iraq. And number four, give and take. Yep.

Amit: So I, I think with that, if I may, James VanDerBeek.

I'm Patrick Swayze and you might want my life.

Michael: All right. Speed round. What did this remind you of?

Amit: Luke Perry, that doubt Beautiful men that were very different than, than the impression I first for,

Michael: [00:58:30] yeah, I'm gonna go Bill Paxton. I just, uh, I look next of kin is not a good movie, but I kind of love it and always will. And, uh, bill Paxton, Patrick Swayze and Liam Neeson.

It's a hell of a cast. Uh, here's a little preview of the next episode of Famous and Gravy. Before his 18th birthday, he enlisted in the Royal Canadian Air Force and trained as an aerial gunner during World War ii, but he was never sent overseas. Man, I have nothing on [00:59:00] Canadian, uh, air flight, uh, guys yet.

Amit: Famous and Gravy listeners, we love hearing from you. If you want to reach out with a comment question or to participate in our opening quiz, email us at hello@famousandgravy.com. In our show notes, we include all kinds of links, including to our website and our social channels. Famous and Gravy is created in Co-hosted by Michael Osborne and me, Amit Kaur.

This episode was produced by Megan [00:59:30] Palmer with original music by Kevin Strang. Thanks and see you next time.